|09/06/2005 08:12:30||Richard||Well mine is a Safety devices cage and has to comply to safety regs and historic regs. It is a bolt together 6 point affair with diagonal and door bars. It mounts to the floor next to the cill and the floor has plates welded to it to level and strengthen the floor. The back legs mount on the slant housing in a similar way, the middle hoop also brackets to the seat belt fixings in the pillars. I think they will cost over £300 now.|
|09/06/2005 08:14:37||Richard||You need to take the rear legs to the hoop.|
|09/06/2005 09:11:11||Rens||what is the hoop?|
|09/06/2005 09:12:10||Rens||and richard do you have pic's of your cage?
a bolt together means there aren't any welds?
|09/06/2005 10:29:26||Alistair||As far as pricing goes, not sure about the V4 cage but a 6 point cage for C900 with diagonal + door bars would cost about £750-800 from SD. I only know this as we recently checked how much the cage that came out of my Dad's old ex-Turbo Challenge car was worth for our trackday car...
That is also a bolt-together cage and complied with the regs about 20 years ago. Doesn't mean no welds, just the individual pieces (rear hoop & braces, diagonal, door bars, front roof/a-pillar bars, front roof brace) all bolt together rather than are welded in situ. The individual pieces that are made from more than one pipe (rear hoop mostly) are welded, as are the feet/mounting plates.
|09/06/2005 12:53:56||Richard||SD are getting a bit greedy these days, the list price was about £350 only a couple of years ago.
The hoop is the central section that goes behind the seats. Its the most important part and is made of bent tube. The rear legs weld on to this, then the diagonal to both legs. My cage bolts together at the front to attach the front legs, top windscreen bar and door bars. A weld in cage is welded into the shell, once it's in, it will not come out.
|09/06/2005 13:05:00||Richard||Try googling Safety Devices, their web page is useful. I would have a look at the competition regs, they usually have diagrams of layouts, material specs and show good proven ways to fit the different parts together and mount to the car. There is little point in re-intenting the wheel!
I dont have any photo's of the cage, but is the same layout as any 6 point bolt together cage. I may have some of the works car that was up for sale not so long ago.
like I say in the begin post, I dont want to buy one. Not beceause i can't afford it (that's just part of it) but beceause i want to do it myself. I was just wondering if someone else did it himself? and if yes how did it look, and which model did he use?
|09/06/2005 16:52:23||Richard||I have used other car cages and modified them to fit a different model. i.e. I made a Hillman Avenger cage into a cage for a Ginetta G15. A Escort mk1 into a rear cage for a Clan Crusader.
The 6 point cage for the Avenger was £60 for a old Safety Devices. You need a cage with a similar width main hoop, it does not matter if the legs are too long, you can cut them. This way you make it yourself, but you can re-use the brackets.
The G15 hoop was bent in more, shortend and the original rear legs and diagonal were shortend and re-welded to pick up the rear turrets.
|09/06/2005 16:56:59||Richard||You could get a company to make a rear hoop and front legs to your design. You are then working with straight bits. Also look at modern wrc and circuit cars for the extra tubes. If I remember the Ford Focus has lots of small tubes going all over the place in the back, you can also weld gussets to the screen pillers and roof sections, to add regidity.|
|09/06/2005 21:29:32||Rens||I've got an hydrolic bending machine, so i can bend everything that i want. I've looked at modern circuit cars.
But i was just wondering how a saab 96 specific cage looked like. Does it need special points, smart points..
|09/06/2005 22:11:51||Alex||Send an e-mail to Highgate; they had a ralley set on Ebay some weeks ago and a roll cage was on of the parts. They may still have the photos available.|
|11/06/2005 00:50:59||John Wood (||Have a look at Saab Sport & Rally Catalogue on the net. The works cars used a bent hoop and two rear brace bars to rear wheel arches. The main hoop was located at the side of rear seat so that the legs sat on the sill beam. The upper hoop and side stays were then covered in padded leatherette. The foot of each leg was bolted/welded to sill beam and the rest of leg was secured to it by a robust sleeve and four cap bolts each side. The rear braces secured to wheelarches by two bolts. The factory did not bother with front legs until late 74/5 and then I believe only on Finnish rallys. This was after Pekka had a massive roll which flattend the front roof down level with the top of the doors.
The full cage assembly that Highgate had on ebay was a rallycross cage as marketed through Rallysport Sweden. I have adapted one of these as per factory specs for hoop and rear stays. I have not installed front legs or screen brace. My original roll bar was scratch built by Aleybars in 1972, to works specs and is probably still out there somewhere as I sold it in 1977/8. A lot of thought has gone into SD cages and the way they bolt together.
I have photos of the cage assembly in Ola Stromberg's Beechdale 900 and the bars go through the bulkhead to meet a framework around the engine including a turret brace to protect the engine.
|13/06/2005 13:10:01||Richard||Malbrads have two of those Beechdale cages and shells, if you really want to look at one of those you need to email Steve Broadhead at Malbrads, he might be able to send a photo, but they are busy. I need to have a go in Steve's 900 sometime, he needs to get a proper Saab rally car though.|
|14/06/2005 14:43:11||bonzo||Sorry - note 5)above should have read "deforming roof" not "deforming room"|
|14/06/2005 17:10:18||Richard||Gusset- Is basically a plate that is welded between the cage and the shell. On a lot of cars you will see a gusset welded to the inner front screen pilar fron the front leg. I dont think you need this and it may not be legal for historic events. If you are doing Stage rallies that you need a helmet and overalls (dirt rally?)you do need to read your countries rally regs, so you have the correct feet and tube spec. Road/historic road rallies over here you can run without a cage, so you could put anything in deamed to be safe.
Watch Historic events, they dont let you pick up suspension mountings and you can only have a 6 point cage. My personal view on this is that the cage should be allowed to be gusseted and now both my cars feature some extra brakets, which are probably not within the regs, but I am not running if they dont let me build a car I think is up to the job.
The Saab is very strong for its day, a normal roll should not put the roof in, but if you hit a tree trunk in mid air it will. My Skoda 120s shell needed re-jigging after a mild off, the Saab would have not needed this doing. That's another reason Historics should be granted the use of gussets and extra bracing, it stops the shell bending in mild rolls and good shells for these old cars are not that easy to find. I would have to go to Czech to buy a full s100 Skoda to re-shell my car.
I took at look athe the JPG files of the cage modifications. Could I suggest that rather than joining the cross from the rear to the upper beam that you instead take them to the upper corners or nodes (where the various vertical and horizontal elements join together). By feeding any load into such a triangulated point, the load will be distributed along the other elements. If the load is fed in just to the horizontal bar as shown. it will distort the bar and use it as a lever. If you look at typical sketches of the multi-point cages on the Safety Devices, OMP or Sparce websites, you'll see how all loads are fed into triangulated points.
|16/06/2005 12:50:38||Richard||My link was more of a challenge!!!!|
|17/06/2005 08:24:11||Rens||Guy's.... i liked both links :)
i found some good tubing... 38mm X 2,6mm for a good price..
Can you use pre bent (welding bents) for the cage?
|17/06/2005 12:43:09||Richard||No you need each section to be one piece.|