|12/12/2005 10:01:47||Gary W||Can anybody give me dimensions for a sumpguard for a 96
I am able to fabricate/weld,any help appreciated
Also need rear roll cage,ie 1/2 cage w/no diagonal
plus shocks/springs suitable tarmac use
|12/12/2005 11:32:43||Alistair||There were two types of factory sumpguard, depending on what exhaust is fitted - The Group 1 part allows for the standard exhaust holes being used with the S&R 2:1 exhaust. The Gp 2 part allowed for the exhaust to be routed to the rear of the engine bay. I don't have much info on the Gp 1 guard, but the following is an extract from the Paul Darlington CCC article from the mid-70s, based on making one similar to the Gp 2 guard:
"...construct one yourself from dural sheet, braced longitudinally with old leaf springs. Quarter inch metal is idel. Cut a piece 2ft by 2ft 10ins. Bend the leading edge so it is 4in higher at the front. Curvature should start 1ft 9in from the rear, Mount the front of the guard to a substantial bracket welded between the bumper supports outtside the front valence. Fix to the rear floorpan with two Saab engine mounts. The resulting guard should protect the entire underbody as far back as the start of the exhaust system."
|12/12/2005 23:24:45||John Wood (Woody)||Both Grp1 & Grp2 guards were of the same length. I have observed that there are a lot of V4s out there with sump-guards that are not long enough and insufficiently braced. Paul Darlington's description is also too short.
An effective guard, like the factory ones, is mounted on three legged arms, through the front apron, secured to the inner wings. The plate is mounted to a removable front bar made from square tube reinforced with angle iron. The shaped plate, made of dural and steel bar secures to the front bar and is mounted at the rear via a stout hardwood block with the bolts (2) through the engine floor between the rear transmission mounting and the joint of the engine bulkhead to the floor. If the plate is secured in front of the rear transmission mounting, heavy landings will distort the floor, bend the mounting and damage the transmission alignment. I used to have a guard made by Biltema of Sweden, which was not long enough, and the results were as described. This too was confirmed by Bo Swaner of the Comp. Dept.
Look at photos of the factory cars and you will see their front bars got bent. That is because it was designed that way so the shock of the landings is softened by the guard and front bar bending and recoiling. The Biltema guard cost me £15 in 1972. The Works Grp2 guard cost me £57.00 in 1975.
Overall length of the plate is 1105mm, width at front 405mm and 200mm at rear. Dural thickness is 5mm. Steel strips are 1035mm and 1015mm long, 52mm wide and 8mm thick.
see photos in gallery section of guard in place. I have made drawings of my plate as I also made copies of the front and side arms, with the intention of having some plates made. Rallysport of Sweden were selling steel reinforced plastic plates during the late 80's, early 90's, though I do not know how long they lasted. I shall forward to Alec photos of the guard assy.
|13/12/2005 00:40:49||John Wood (Woody)||errata: for softened replace with absorbed.|
|13/12/2005 00:42:37||John Wood (Woody)||see also VSAAB in links for 1971 Rally catalogue and Grp1/2 protection plates.|
|13/12/2005 16:02:53||Alec||John has kindly sent us some photos of the sump guard and also of mexico brackets for the V4. I have added these into the articles section of this website.
|14/12/2005 00:53:55||Alistair||Interesting & useful advice from John there...nice one fella.
Our car had the factory Gp 2 guard mounted as described, big block of rainforest at the aft end and substantial bracket up front between bumper mounts, but also braced into inner wings & valance I think.
|14/12/2005 07:37:29||Richard||I just bent my works grp2 guard through 45deg. I am going for a full width job next time as the grp2 does not stop tree stumps from ripping down the bottom edge of the inner wings and bending the front towers. I think we are going for a removable front valance with box section across it to aid engine removal and add strength.|
|14/12/2005 07:49:46||Richard||Dampers:- The best combo we have used is avo front and billy 99 rally rear. You can set the car up with the adjustables at the front and the billies stop the rear from skipping about and the rear. If you are on tar then avos all round might be better. You can get them made with silkolene oil in them to resist fade, but it does make them slightly softer overall.
Springs:- I use 390 ib springs at the front and 30 pc stiffer on the rear for gravel, if I run it any stiffer at the front it understeers on tarmac. You could try some cut down 95 springs on the rear.
I think some better suspension bushes would be of benefit, see xp racing in Sweden.
Brakes:- You will need 1166 mintex racing pads if you want to use the freewheel. 1155 for gravel.
Tyres:- Avon 155 classic rally are the best but cost over £100 each (175 Avons are too grippy, unless you like going upside down). Maxsport do some 175 inters that are cheaper, but are nowhere as good as Avons.
Wheels:- Minilite style wheels aid cooling alot and even the weak ronals should be ok on tar. Otherwise 4 1/2 steels or ofset steels should be ok.
|14/12/2005 09:10:46||john||Further to your email above Richard I am now using 185/65 on my 96 fitted to Ronal's I am amazed at the better handling on the road, I understand what people say about "grip roll" and they are loads grippier than my 155's, how much feedback do you get before a 96 rolls?|
|14/12/2005 12:31:19||Richard||What you have to remember is the Avon is a very sticky road legal competition tyre. The grip level is not even comparible with a road tyre. When up to temp your hand will stick to the Avon. I run 175 tyres on the hillclimber and they arnt even close to the Avon. I have used 175 Avon's and when up to temp I had the Saab on 2 wheels on every bend (no joke), so I put it on the trailer and went home.
If you are pushing on you get no warning of grip roll, you have the time from the wheels leaving the ground to 45deg on two wheels to get opposite lock and power on if you have a LSD.
|14/12/2005 14:05:59||Alistair||185/65 road tyers won't sufer this problem, as Ruich says they are not grippy enough. Mine on these tyres with S&R springs & Billies all round would still slide rather than roll.|
|14/12/2005 15:37:40||john||Thanks for the advice thought my new joy of running around with wide tyres and alloys was maybe going to be short lived.|
|15/12/2005 08:04:52||Richard||I bet I can roll one on std tyres! M & S tyres dont grip do they Al, didnt stop us nearly rolling. To be honest you have to be driving like a total nutter, so I would not worry John.|
|15/12/2005 14:36:49||Jon||Richard (or anyone else of course), what damper/spring setup would you recommend for fast road use and where could the springs be obtained? Thanks.|
|16/12/2005 07:31:53||Richard||I would stick to the std springs and up the damping on something like a Avo damper. Up the front more than the rear so you keep some sort of comfort. Set your camber to 0.5 - 1.0 deg neg on the front and run with the wheels straight ahead or a deg of toe out.|
|17/12/2005 11:36:04||paul||Richard, how long do those avons last getting ragged arround? I'm getting my car ready for some twelve car rallying and I'm just wondering if they would be an economical option (will they last 600 or 700 miles say?)|
|19/12/2005 07:42:30||Richard||I would not think they would, plus if you do hit a gravel/mud they wont be much good. Colway Emjo's or Maxsport RB3's should be ok for winter use. Maybe some road tyres would suit. If you want to be cheap Camac 165 road tyres have a open tread pattern. Otherwise a Bridgestone 175/65 could be used on tar, but they lower the car down a bit.|
|19/12/2005 10:28:18||Alistair||You may be right about the tyres Rich, but I thought what got us was sliding into that expansion joint in the concrete??? I do think you'd have to try very hard to get it to roll on standard suspension & road tyres, they will always slide first unless you're on a very grippy surface/serious adverse camber on a bend, or you hit a big bump in the middle?? Someone may prove me wrong I'm sure ;-)|