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T O P I C    R E V I E W
mellePosted - 09 May 2020 : 18:14:04
I've wanted to build a fuel injected V4 for years, and I've started a K-Jetronic (Bosch mechanical injection) conversion project a long time ago that's still not finished. I've collected all the parts I need, done the basic design work and built an engine test bench, but living far away from my workshop and having a few other projects going doesn't exactly help progress. In other words, I'm nearly done, bar the actual build.

Because my flight to NL got cancelled due to corona just before Easter and I was running out of projects I could work on in Bath, I decided it was time for another injection project. I've learned a lot about engine timing in the past five or so years; it's a fascinating subject that led to the desire to build an engine with a fully programmable motor management system, like Megasquirt.

Although I can do a lot of work on developing an EFI (electronic fuel injection) engine at home, the engine will ultimately get built in the workshop again, so don't hold your breath for the end result.


I know a few people who've converted V4s to EFI, and each had their own approach. A chap from the US who used to frequent this forum a while ago has a nice build report from his EFI project on his website: https://whatonearthisasonett.wordpress.com/2019/01/01/product-spotlight-2-custom-v4-fuel-injection-system/ It's all done to a high standard and it looks great, but using all new parts and spending lots of cash is not exactly my style.

The Ford 2.8 and 2.9 V6 came with EFI, and I thought it would be cool if I could massage a V6 manifold and plenum to fit a V4. I acquired one of each and started comparing them to the V4 manifold using a printout from a manifold gasket template from my website (2.8 left in pic, 2.9 right).





The 2.8 originally came with K-Jet and was only sold with EFI one model year; the manifold is not really suitable to convert to fit the V4 because the cooling layout of the 2.3/2.8 engine is different, so I decided to use the 2.9 manifold. 2.9 manifolds are relatively easy to get and not very expensive, whereas the 2.8 manifold is rare as hens teeth and will hopefully pay for the rest of the project (I got it cheap!). Here's a side-by-side comparison between the 2.9 V6 and the V4 manifold. The V4 one looks tiny in comparison!




The V6 is 12cm longer than the V4, so that's the amount the manifold needs shortening too.




Because the cooling layout differs between the engines, I'll need to create a cooling channel, which looks to be fairly easy. Some of the webbing will be removed, holes created and a bottom plate welded in. I don't have a mill, but I've had good luck milling aluminium with a router and a jig made of some rails before; just take it slowly and use a decent quality bit or a carbide burr and plenty WD40 as a lubricant.





I did some quick Photoshops of the envisioned end result, looks pretty good to me (ignore the blue tape), V6 for comparison first.






I'm VERY tempted now to get the hacksaw out, but a sensible voice in my head tells me to wait until I'm back in the workshop and use proper/ power tools. I'm not saying it'll be easy, but I've convinced myself today it's doable. I don't have a TIG welder, nor do I have any experience with TIG and aluminium, but I have a mate who can melt it together for me. I'm going to line everything up the best I can with a jig (thick piece of straight material where I can clamp/ bolt the parts to), tack weld it with the MIG and have my mate fully weld it. If there's any warping I'll have the contact surfaces milled by a machine shop.


Slightly worried about the height, not sure if this will fit under the bonnet of a 95/96, the hinge bar may be in the way. I think I can remove 1cm from the bottom of the plenum and about 1cm from the top of the manifold too if needed; with lower engine mounts I think I can gain another 1-2cm. Lowering the engine mounts might be advantageous anyway as I plan to slightly raise the suspension of my 95. We'll see, I'll measure a carb + air cleaner at some point but not the biggest issue now.




As for the management side of things, I think I'm going to use Speeduino (https://speeduino.com), an open source system based on a Arduino microprocessor and very similar to Megasquirt (it uses Tuner Studio software too), but much cheaper. The ECU will control both fuel and spark, so the distributor will eventually go. The layout of the ignition will be a bit like Borstlap's Megajolt project, but without the EDIS module (although I think one can be integrated to create a limp-home mode in case the ECU dies): http://www.saab-v4.co.uk/speedball/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3795


Next step is to rebuild and test the injectors I have and decide on the ECU I'm going to use. As things look now, I'll be ordering a Speeduino DIY kit at some point and do all the soldering myself. Not something I'm very experienced with, so should be fun.

Just to be clear, I'm not aiming for maximum power or anything, I just want to build some nice engines and enjoy figuring everything out. I drive like a granny and I'm not one to build useless muscle anyway. I'll write about my K-Jet project another time.

www.saabv4.com
15   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
VedrivePosted - 12 Mar 2024 : 11:49:03
Nice work Melle, great to see how you fixed the flywheel on a simple but efficiënt wooden bench set up. May be worth a method to copy as I have to less space in front of my engine for mounting the toothed wheel.
And of course the drilling machine, looks to me it was born in the right time, love it.
mellePosted - 11 Mar 2024 : 19:29:12
I'm pretty confident the flywheel pattern will work too; will see when I've made a bracket for the sensor and have a starter. Looking forward to hearing more about your exhaust upgrade.

www.saabv4.com
AnttiKPosted - 11 Mar 2024 : 11:43:27
Good work Melle! I am sure that your drilled trigger pattern will work. It is easy to verify the operation with tunerstudio's toothlogger, when adjusting the sensor position.

I am currently finishing the exhaust port dividers in my V4 and excited to see the results in next month, after the snow and ice melt from the roads.
mellePosted - 09 Mar 2024 : 21:38:34
I've bead blasted the manifold before welding, the bosses were roughed up with a scotch pad, and everything including the TIG rods was cleaned with acetone before welding. We regularly cleaned the welds with a stainless wire brush during the process, and some of the welds had to be ground out with a die grinder and rewelded multiple times.

www.saabv4.com
beardydavePosted - 08 Mar 2024 : 06:26:06
When welding aluminium you have to remove the thin oxide layer that naturally and rapidly builds up on aluminium before you can weld it.

It may be necessary to remove a section, weld a section, remove a section, weld a section etc.
Car 55Posted - 08 Mar 2024 : 05:49:42
Melle,
Great project..
Did you rough up the alloy sections to be welded, I always use buff pad on grinder to really rough it up as it won't weld very well to shiny alloy, also depending on the welder, you can always heat up the parts before welding.. but you probably know that anyway..
WoodyPosted - 23 Feb 2024 : 13:48:24
It was a Lucas FI system
mellePosted - 21 Feb 2024 : 18:58:51
Thanks for the offer Gareth, I'm going to NL next month and I have a few starters I want to bring back to overhaul anyway. Colour is just left over paint I slapped on to keep the rust at bay, it's growing on me though!

Woody, what system did Saab use? D-Jetronic? The ITBs look very rudimentary, probably machined from billet rather than die cast.

www.saabv4.com
DirtbikerPosted - 19 Feb 2024 : 22:40:46
Hi Melle,
Coming on great now!
I especially like the colour, reminds me of a 60s or 70s engineering/science development type exhibit you might find in the science museum.
I can post you a starter if you don’t want to wait for an NL trip, just let me know.
Cheers
WoodyPosted - 18 Feb 2024 : 21:50:02
Impressive work folks. This really shaves my head as I have not learned to embrace the technology of fuel injection,
even though my last two Skodas have used it.
I would have liked the original EFI set up that Saab used on the V4, but need to win the lottery for that one.

mellePosted - 18 Feb 2024 : 17:04:01
I'm still quietly chipping away at my V4 injection projects. A friend is building a block and heads for the K-Jet engine; I think once those are done I have everything ready for the engine to be built up and go on the test bench (which itself still needs finishing...).


For the EFI engine I’ve modified a set of Ford 2.9 V6 rocker covers, I think they came out pretty nicely.




I’ve drilled a 36-1 hole pattern in a flywheel for the VR crank sensor. An R8 bearing fits the flywheel bore, which was convenient for centring. I wasn't sure what diameter and depth the holes needed to be; I've gone with 13 and 6mm, which looks alright to me, whether it works we'll see I suppose.

Layout wasn’t perfect and my drilling set-up wasn’t the most rigid, so the hole spacing isn’t perfect, but I think the software should be able to smooth that out. I have more flywheels, so if this is not accurate enough I’ll give it another try with the Aldi pillar drill in my workshop and a jig to keep the flywheel positioned. Worst case I’ll have it done by someone with a mill and a rotary table, or a CNC mill. The flywheel will need re-balancing obviously.







I want to replace the louvred bellhousing inspection hole cover with a bracket for the crank sensor. Everything clears very nicely, but I’ll have to make sure the sensor is positioned correctly in relation to the flywheel, which may be tricky as the casting is pretty rough. Nothing a bit of filing can’t sort, but I may have to build some adjustability into the design as the finish is not very repeatable from bellhousing to bellhousing, and this won't be the one I'll be using eventually.




The angle of the connector on the Ford crank sensor is just perfect.




Next time I go to NL I’ll bring back a starter so I can test the sensor with the Speeduino ECU. I should be able to test all sensors, spark plugs and injectors too I think. An inlet manifold for this engine is also being made by my friend who’s building the K-Jet block and heads for me. Be nice if I could have this running next year.



www.saabv4.com
AnttiKPosted - 26 Dec 2022 : 10:41:30
Good progress Melle!

Yes, aluminium welding is difficult. There are many different kind of ways to clean up the aluminium before welding and it is very important. And the cast aluminium like V4 intake manifold is much harder to weld than aluminium sheet metal.
mellePosted - 24 Dec 2022 : 19:27:34
No, ribbed pressed steel rocker covers, can't find a pic but will show them when you come to visit. JRCast/ John Redmond in Ireland used to make cast aluminium V4 ones (http://www.saab-v4.co.uk/speedball/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3791), not sure what happened with him but he seems to have gone quiet. They were very well made, but I prefer steel ones because I think they look better (same with wheels!). Have you tried Burton Power in the UK? I think they also sell/ sold Redmond's covers.

Aluminium Matra sumps seem to be proper rare indeed. I've been looking for one for my V4 parts collection for about 10 years now, but only seen one for sale once, still attached to an engine. Agreed to buy it with a dozen other V4s and then the guy went quiet, typical...

Yes, I'll bring some injection parts!

www.saabv4.com
VedrivePosted - 24 Dec 2022 : 18:11:45
Nice progress Melle,
Modified 2.9 valve covers in alloy? I looked around for some but no succes until now, same as a V4 aluminium oil pan, they exist but hard to get.

Try to see you when yr in Holland, will you bring some of the injection material? I am very curious.

mellePosted - 24 Dec 2022 : 14:53:53
Some small things happened. This summer, my friend welded the injector bosses into the K-Jet manifold for me. I bead blasted the manifold and cleaned the hell out of it with acetone, but the alloy still was a right pain to weld. Ignore the washers under the brass caps, they're to emulate the height with injector seals fitted so we could make sure there wouldn't be any interference issues.




It's tight, but everything fits, which is a relief.




Next time I'm in the workshop I'll get the die grinders out and do some porting. The excess from the new bosses will be removed and the ports will be opened up to Saab Sport and Rally spec. If required, we'll then touch up the welds with a little more TIG.




I made coil-on-plug brackets from aluminium angle for the EFI engine the other day. Will bring them to the workshop next time I go to bead blast them and fit rivnuts for the COP fasteners.




Happy with how they came out, hope the angle of the boots isn't too acute though, as this is obviously not how they are supposed to be fitted.




Ignore the COP/ oil filler cap interference, the green rocker covers are just for mock-up purposes, I'll be using shortened and modified 2.9 V6 ones for the final iteration. I'll use the filler cap that is currently fitted to the right hand side rocker cover in the photo, I think it's off a Fiesta. I will of course fit a slightly more useful inlet manifold as well (see earlier in this thread).



www.saabv4.com

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