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T O P I C    R E V I E W
GentyPosted - 14 Jan 2008 : 15:35:13
I am looking into getting some 4 bolt hubs made up. They would be the Ford 4 x 108pcd pattern.

This is partly for the ubiquitous choice of wheels but also to match the Ford drums that will go on the rear. Getting drums made up would costs a fortune so I am letting that lead my choice.

The cost lies in getting the spline machined into the hub. I have the measurements for the hub which will then accept an Alfa Romeo front disc with the standard calliper.

What you would need for the conversion is:

  • Wheels & tyres.

  • Ford 8" drums. I need to check this re the bearings you will need but apparently it is fairly simple.

  • A pair of Alfa discs.

  • These lovely hubs.



Right. Bad news.

The cost for the machining of the spline alone is around 1000 to set the special tool up. plus 25 for each batch plus 2.25 for each hub.

I personally don't have 1300 for a pair of hubs but getting 10 pairs done knocks this down to about 110 for the machining (per pair) plus the cost of the blank hub. I need to get a cost for this but cant see it costing more than 50 a pair.

What I need to know is...

Are there 9 others out there who would pay 160 for these hubs? Of course you will need a few other things (the wheels drums and discs).

I would also like to know what you would want the hubs to be made of?

Aluminium is one option - easy to machine the blank from and lightweight - but is it too soft?

Steel would be stronger but rust?

I would imagine the cost of Stainless Steel would be too prohibitive.


Let me know if you are interested and your views on materials and I can then look into getting the blanks made.

If this is a go-er I am happy to put my money in to secure the order. This would be a significant figure but If I have some solid interest I will take care of that.

Genty
www.performance96.co.uk
15   L A T E S T    R E P L I E S    (Newest First)
rsimpsPosted - 11 Feb 2011 : 07:47:52
You could cut the drive shaft and tube it using a 99 cv and a v4 inner drive.
KoodaPosted - 02 Jul 2008 : 10:53:13
Interestingly, my CV joints dont look much like the V4 one you show there.
DerekPosted - 25 Jun 2008 : 08:40:44
Excellent info Adam.
Pics of the drivers etc about 20-25% smaller would be good so you don't have to chase them round the screen. Or is that just me? It's usually fine though. These are 1536 x 1152 so reducing them by a third would be fine.
n/aPosted - 24 Jun 2008 : 20:30:12
looking good genty!!!
GentyPosted - 24 Jun 2008 : 12:25:51
I've now recieved a pair of early 99 inner drivers, the necessary tripd bearings and a drive shaft to model the splines on if custom shafts are needed. (the 99/900 has unequal driveshafts and I have a shorter one - there is an element of hope which I am trying to keep under control becuase the 99 is some 8" wider then the 96 it would just be too perfect if the shorter drive shaft slotted in without any modification. I've said it now so it won't!)

In this photo you cans see the difference in splines on the inner drivers. The V4 (left) shares the same spline as the early 99 (middle). The laterr 99 and 900 are clearly too large.




The V4 driver has the T-handle style bearings at the end of the drive shaft compared to the tripod beairngs on the 99/900




A close up shows the slight difference between the bearing cups; the early 99 (left) is slightly smaller than the later 99/900 (right). Hence the need for the 81-85 drive shafts with smaller bearings




Next job is to copy Graminal95's good work and get my drive carriers lathed out and 900 bearings and CV joints pressed in. Then I'll be able to measure the correct length for the driveshafts. This will either be a shortedn/lengthen driveshaft or a custom pair.


I am writing this work up on my website to keep it all together ans succinct.

http://www.performance96.co.uk/hubconversion.html


Back to the garage...


Genty
www.performance96.co.uk
GentyPosted - 07 Apr 2008 : 16:17:56
You're one step ahead of me! My next job was to get the bearing measurements!

Genty
www.performance96.co.uk
Graminal95Posted - 07 Apr 2008 : 04:16:24
Damn Genty that is some great investigative work! It really nice to have the model year for all the parts needed for the conversion.

As I see it the drive carrier can be machined to accept the 900 bearing. If the ID was taken from 72mm to 75mm, the lip where the old rear seal sits taken off and a snap ring groove put in at ~36.9mm from the face of the screw on retainer, you can just grab a hub and throw it in. Now if you wanted a bit less machining work then you could use a bearing (timken # 510018) with a 72mm OD and a 40mm ID, machine the hub 2mm on the diameter (really easy machining) and then take off the rear seal lip on the drive carrier and put a snap ring in.

From what I have been able to find there is no wheel bearing or angular contact bearing that has a 72mm OD 42mm ID and 30mm Width. Now if one could find such a bearing then it would be a no machining job and very clean. I would opt for machining just the drive carrier as you have to machine it anyways to put a snap ring in, so while its up in the chuck, just take off the extra 3mm or 1.5mm on the radius and be done with it. But then again I have access to a lathe and can do the work myself making it cheap.

I hope that when I get some spare time I can look into this a bit more for you guy, although I think Genty is doing a great job of putting all the pieces together himself. I'm happy with my hubs for now and my inner drivers are nice and tight so I think it will be a long time before I put all this stuff together on my car.

Keep up the good work!!

Here are a few photos of the hubs, both 900 and 96 regular and machined down, and drive carrier ect.

http://picasaweb.google.com/GWCullen/Saab96FromHubs
GentyPosted - 03 Apr 2008 : 10:36:22
Once again I have followed Graminal95's wisdom and looked into 99/900 front hubs into the V4 drive carrier ( 'knuckle' ) with 99 inner drivers into the V4 gearbox. This will mean the 99 driveshafts simply need to be shortened to suit.

Due to changes over the years not all driveshafts will fit the inner drivers or CV joint and same for the hubs. Steve at Malbrad Saab has done a lot of the leg work for me and this is what he has come up with:
  • Inner Drivers 99 MY 69-74 these fit the V4 box

  • Drive shafts 99 MY 81-85 these have small spiders for the early inner drives yet suitable splines for the later outer CV joints

  • Outer CV Joint 99 MY 84- these should fit all post 84 114 and 108 front hubs

  • Front hubs 99 MY 75- or any c900
  • depending on your choice of rear hubs 108 or 114 pcd


The driveshafts need to be cut shortened and welded. V4 driveshafts could be cut and welded to the ends of 99/900 driveshafts so that you retain the original V4 inner drivers but for the relative simplicity of having one pair of driveshafts to modify you also get the benefit of tripod inner drivers over the V4 T Joint.


I have not yet looked into getting the hubs into the drive carrier.

Genty
www.performance96.co.uk
GentyPosted - 27 Mar 2008 : 13:43:00
Niklas has plans for S&R style solid rocker mounts as well

Genty
www.performance96.co.uk
rsimpsPosted - 27 Mar 2008 : 11:10:22
I think some of the saloon racing v4's had discs all round in the 70's. If you go to the Saab Klubben forum there were some photo's. The 99 used porker 914 brakes on the rear, might be of use. Niklas is always getting new stuff made!
GentyPosted - 26 Mar 2008 : 21:43:21
For Historic purposes a chap called Folmer (don't know his last name!) is making new hubs with Niklas Enander of Classic Saab Racing. They are making the bus with a 4x114.3 pattern (as per the Saab Sport set up) ina variety of models; 3 of which are for the Saab Sport disc but in a 3 different offsets (all of which allowed within Historic rules) and one which mounts a 9000 caliper on the rear of the hub. I am not sure if this would fit in Historic rules! You would need to find a suitable caliper - I think the folks in Sweden have been using a Ferrari calliper for this set up?

No mention of a new Sport drum but I suppose you would use a Ford Escort drum redrilled to 4x114.3

I tried viewing Niklas' website but it is down at the moment.

Genty
www.performance96.co.uk
rsimpsPosted - 26 Mar 2008 : 21:15:08
Unfortunatly most of us in historic motorsport wont be able to use the centre lock wheel. I will have a word with Don at minilite when I see him next. Basically a copy of the sport setup with a more avalible modern caliper would be a good idea. One it would be legal for all motorsport, and it would be seen as a more orginal setup for someone with a stroker.
GentyPosted - 24 Mar 2008 : 22:12:26
Graminal95:
I see what you are saying but putting the 99/900 hub and outer CV into a machined V4 front "knuckle" is a headache from beginning to end. The problem with this is neither the 99 or 900 brake callipers fit the V4 knuckle so you would still need to find different callipers. I got a quote for custom driveshafts - these were about 380 although a much cheaper option is to weld a V4/99 combo together with a reinforcing sleeve over the join. I cannot see a point to this. You would have very strong 99/900 front hubs but additional costs in the driveshafts and no solution to the brakes. Am I missing something?

I did consider using 99/900 front knuckles a while back. While this would give you a ready made set with exceptional brakes the steering arms are very low down meaning the steering rack would need to be relocated - a massive headache! But...if the Right/Left knuckles were swapped sides and turned upside down the steering arms would be a little higher. Maybe the steering rack could be modified with two universal joints on each side - but I do not know if this would affect handling. You would get the ease of hub swap and good brakes but again you would need custom driveshafts

(I did not know the 99/900 gearbox cups fitted into the V4 gearbox by the way.)

ommony
The centre bolt hub set (disc on front drum on rear) is being made by Cambridge Motorsport ( www.cambridgemotorsport.se). The chap to speak to is Hector Rebus. The email is "vetnas (at) cambridgemotorsport.se" He speaks very good english. If you email/PM me I'll send you his telephone number.

I am not especially bothered about these wheels but I think having Chrome wire wheels would look absolutley fantastic on a show car!

Genty
www.performance96.co.uk
ommonyPosted - 24 Mar 2008 : 19:07:05
Hey Genty
I'd be quite interested to hear more about the bits being made by that company in Spain if'n'when you hear more from them. Sounds like a very nice, easy swap -- and if minilite are doing 5.5" rims then...well...what more could I want? :D
Graminal95Posted - 24 Mar 2008 : 18:37:26
Well Genty you have motivated me to dig through my boxes of v4 hubs and what not, to take another looks at the 4 bolt design. I have to say that 5 bolt would be fine, you can easily make the holes in the machined hubs and same goes for the rears. If you can find a 99 then you have the rears sorted with a little machining and some new bearings.

I have a pre 87 900 hub that I have been thinking about using since I made the brakes back in 98', and they will work with the original bearing with a little machining to the knuckle, and a snap ring put in place. Then you can have strong hubs(although my buddy has been racing his car with the same brakes I have and has not yet bent or broken a hub yet) and a bearing that can be had off the shelf at most parts stores. Use 900 CV and early 99 inner drivers, the cups just pop into the v4 box and have some drive shafts made up cheap. This way you could have cheap rock solid hubs with off the shelf parts with a small amount of machining to the front knuckles.

If you have a spare v4 knuckle I would mount it up in a vice and then you will have a nice way to fit up and measure brakes, bearings, hubs....... I'll try and get some photos up with picts of hubs, bare knuckle, brakes etc. soon.

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