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 Weber 34ICH conversion
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tommygoldy
V4 Fan

142 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2014 :  21:05:29 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I'd like to put a new Weber carb on my 95 and I'm wondering what the most sensible way to achieve it is.

I've done the job to VWs in the past using an off the shelf conversion kit - this route is appealing if possible, and I've noticed Ashcraft do a kit, but no idea of cost or quality. Any other options to this approach?

If I were to go DIY how much fiddling is involved in terms of linkage and air filter mounting, and what do I need in terms of an adapter plate or manifold?

Thanks!

UK_Sub
Moderator

United Kingdom
2106 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2014 :  09:08:03 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Definitely worth doing a search on this forum, came up with these for you...

http://www.saab-v4.co.uk/speedball/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3320&SearchTerms=weber

http://www.saab-v4.co.uk/speedball/topic.asp?topic_id=2742&whichpage=1
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deggsie
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
285 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2014 :  09:41:02 Show Profile Reply with Quote
You could also try Nick Senecal "The Saab Doctor" (see http://www.saabv4.co.uk/ and http://saabdoctor.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/if-you-have-fomoco-carb-on-your-v4.html ).
I had a complete Weber 34 ICH 'kit' from him a while ago with all linkages, longer studs, air filter, choke cable etc - just bolted on (not cheap, but very good quality). As I recall I just needed a spare bit of hose to by-pass the redundant auto-choke connections.

___________________________
Saab - beyond the conventional !

Edited by - deggsie on 04 Feb 2014 09:41:47
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tommygoldy
V4 Fan

142 Posts

Posted - 04 Feb 2014 :  23:13:10 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Thanks for the info. I have searched around and found lots of info on suitable jetting etc but no definitive answer on how much fiddling about there is to get a standard 34 ICH to work.

Ashcraft sells an "intermediate plate with fittings for the PCV valve and brake booster hose". I wonder if this is necessary. Their full kit works out at 230 odd shipped from the US but there will be import duty on that too.

Maybe I'll give Fast Road Cars and Nick Senecal a call tomorrow and see what they both have to say.
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pchristy
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1737 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  09:53:20 Show Profile Reply with Quote
First of all, make sure you have the right 34ich! They were available with three different choke sizes, and the most commonly available one (29mm from memory, and used in Land-Rovers) is too big for a V4. Whilst it will fit, you will have a lot of trouble getting it to run properly. The one you want is the 27 mm one. There is also a 25mm one (I think) and this will be too restrictive. The choke size should be stamped on the carb barrel.

The carb should just drop straight in where the FoMoCo carb sat. However, since most of these carbs are fairly old now, check the base is flat before fitting. If its been over-tightened in the past, it can "bow" slightly giving an air leak between the carb and manifold. Its easy enough to fix if this has happened.. You may need to fiddle with the linkage to get the carb to fully open and close, but its a lot less troublesome than a twin choke! A 28/36 twin-choke needs a LOT more travel from the throttle linkage....! I replaced the "bent coat-hanger" link on mine with a proper threaded and ball jointed link which made a big improvement to the smoothness of operation.

The biggest problem I found was that the choke linkage (needed on very cold days) fouled on the crank-case breather plumbing. A friend of mine cut the breather valve, and welded it back together with a 45 degree bend in it, which provided a complete cure.

The 34ich will only provide a performance increase if you also do something about the very restrictive standard exhaust. A Jetex is probably the simplest solution, and combined with a Weber, will provide a dramatic improvement in performance, at no cost in fuel consumption! Without an exhaust mod, the performance isn't noticeably better than the FoMoCo. However, it feels much more responsive, and is much nicer to drive. Depending on how heavy your right foot is, you may notice an improvement in fuel consumption. However, the improved responsiveness does encourage you to put your foot down more, so don't be surprised if you don't gain much here!

The jetting should be the same as for a Cortina GT 1500, and someone on here should have a list of all the jet sizes. Mine came off a V4 anyway, so was mostly correct. However, I did have to increase the idle jet size from a 50 to a 60, to accommodate modern fuel. The idle mixture screw should be between 1.5 and 2 turns out. If it is not, you will get a lot of lumpiness at part throttle. The idle jet not only controls the idle mixture, but also the mixture up to about half throttle. If you have the wrong jet, you will be able to achieve a decent tickover, but it won't run smoothly at part throttle. You can get jets from Fast Road Cars, who are very helpful, and offer a very quick service!

There's a full account of my experiences here: http://www.saab-v4.co.uk/speedball/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2742&SearchTerms=34ich

Best of luck!



--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"
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john-saab
Administrator

United Kingdom
2648 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  18:07:17 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Excellent reply Peter..nothing more to add to that.
The correct size carb is getting hard to find now.

'72 95 (The Flying Banana),'72 96(Bridget),'72 96 (green one)'73 96 (Vernon),'74 95 (Veronica)
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hillbilly
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
225 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  19:04:14 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Fast road cars in Newport are familiar with the set up for a 1500 v4,have Webber 34 ich 27 in stock and supply with the manual choke kit and hide and filter. I paid 170 six months ago for the kit. Pete is right exactly the same as a cortina set up.
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tommygoldy
V4 Fan

142 Posts

Posted - 05 Feb 2014 :  23:56:28 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Thanks all, especially Pete - that's just the answer I was looking for. I'll get on it.

A bit concerned about getting the choke linkage to clear the breather pipe - would I be right in thinking there's another way round it which doesn't involve cutting and welding the valve? How have others solved this?

Car runs pretty well at the mo, although it's rough until it's warmed up - which I'm blaming on the current auto choke. I've had Webers as upgrades on VWs before and in my experience they are nice carbs. I'm also thinking that fitting one is probably good preventative maintenance in the longer term. I'd like to put a Jetex exhaust on the car too, but will have to see how I get on financially. As I'm using the car regularly reliability and drivability is the priority at the moment.
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pchristy
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1737 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 :  12:27:40 Show Profile Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tommygoldy
A bit concerned about getting the choke linkage to clear the breather pipe - would I be right in thinking there's another way round it which doesn't involve cutting and welding the valve? How have others solved this?


If you can find a thin enough hose (that won't collapse under vacuum!) then you might get away without any mods. However, its likely that the linkage rubbing against the hose when you use the choke will eventually puncture it. Whilst this won't produce a vacuum leak (wrong side of the valve for that) it will release crankcase fumes under the bonnet! You may get an oily smell inside!

Anyone who is a reasonable welder should be able to mod a valve for you, and they are readily available. I had a couple of spares in my junk box, so even if my friend had got it wrong, it wouldn't have been an issue!

Where are you based? If you are within striking distance of Watford, I can put you in touch with the man who did mine.

Someone on here might know of a source of "bent" breather valves. Indeed, if you are contacting FRC, it might be worth asking there. I hear this is also a problem on VWs using this carb.

Good Luck!



--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"
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john-saab
Administrator

United Kingdom
2648 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 :  14:49:38 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I didn't need to change the breather pipe on my car..it is close but not touching the linkage.

'72 95 (The Flying Banana),'72 96(Bridget),'72 96 (green one)'73 96 (Vernon),'74 95 (Veronica)
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UK_Sub
Moderator

United Kingdom
2106 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 :  15:50:35 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Didn't need to change mine either...
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tommygoldy
V4 Fan

142 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 :  16:43:07 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Ok, well I'll get one and see how I get on. Thanks all!

Pete - I've sent you an email re your chap in Watford - I'm in North London, so not too far.
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Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1779 Posts

Posted - 06 Feb 2014 :  22:47:30 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Wasn't it the 28/36 that you had to do the mod for Pete? May be easier with the 34ICH?
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pchristy
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1737 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2014 :  08:40:45 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Hi Derek,

No, the 28/36 is on my 96 and is now fitted on the correct S&R manifold. The original manifold went to John-saab, but in neither case was the breather an issue - only the extra travel on the linkage required by a DCD carb!

The 34ich went on to my 95, now in the hands of a new owner, and is the one that caused me some issues with fouling the choke linkage. Others seem to have got around this by using thin hose, but in my case, the hose was clashing quite badly with the linkage, risking damage to the hose and restricting the choke travel.

Mind you, I was using a piece of silicone hose - quite thick and rigid - that was left over from replacing all the hoses on the cooling system!



--
Pete
"Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!"
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PDickens
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
519 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2014 :  08:58:17 Show Profile Visit PDickens's Homepage Reply with Quote
Nothing to add really except agree with Pete that the 60 jet makes a big difference, although I run my 96 on the standard exhaust and have still noticed much better performance over the original FoMoCO lump. One thing I did when I fitted the Weber was to use the thicker heat resistant gasket for the manifold joint, which also allows a tad more clearance for some of the bits Pete mentions.
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john-saab
Administrator

United Kingdom
2648 Posts

Posted - 07 Feb 2014 :  18:13:08 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Had an on line chat with FRC today and he confirms that the 27mm ICH is on the shelf, including fitting kit and manual choke..175 delivered (UK)


'72 95 (The Flying Banana),'72 96(Bridget),'72 96 (green one)'73 96 (Vernon),'74 95 (Veronica)
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