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 Clutch help please!
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UK_Sub
Moderator

United Kingdom
2154 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2014 :  21:49:51 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Picked up a new project today, but the clutch might need replacing...

When the clutch pedal is fully depressed it sounds like the clutch arms are catching - basically a horrible din!

Can I make any adjustments to the slave cylinder and adjustment bolt?


Cheers,

Simon

TTruckie
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
288 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2014 :  08:17:12 Show Profile Reply with Quote
it will be the clutch arm travelling too far forward and striking the back pressure plate and springs on the clutch cover.

You must ask why this is happening.. is the clutch friction plate and or thrust bearing worn needing the extra travel? Have some bits of the system been replaced recently and are not fully compatible (they are supposed to be the same but I have found different years have subtle differences and the tolerances are so small). Has the clutch arm become worn and the thrust bearing mounting holes become ovaled and hence needing the the arm to move further forward. I have also found that clutch arms are different shapes too!

in the short term if the clutch doesn't need to go all the way to the floor you can either do it manually of adjust the slave cylinder a little to help but it will need the engine out to investigate. If you leave it you will break something and it may well become terminal just at an inappropriate time

Good luck in your investigations
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john-saab
Administrator

United Kingdom
2669 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2014 :  09:21:48 Show Profile Reply with Quote
worst case is that the clutch arm is bent/snapped..I have seen both. Also have taken an engine out to find a the lower thrust bearing securing pin (wire) had dropped out..put it back in and all was perfect.
I think whatever has happened it means the engine is coming out to check it over properly.

'72 95 (The Flying Banana),'72 96(Bridget),'72 96 (green one)'73 96 (Vernon),'74 95 (Veronica)
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UK_Sub
Moderator

United Kingdom
2154 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2014 :  09:35:23 Show Profile Reply with Quote
The previous owner thought it was the mounting holes that had become ovaled.

If this turns out to be the case, is it possible to get hold of a new clutch arm?

And any recommendations on where to buy clutch parts - that will hopefully all work together (in perfect harmony)?


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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2563 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2014 :  09:57:56 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
Put a 12mm aluminium rod through the holes, align it (should run perfectly parallel to the pivot axis), weld up the extra space and everything should be alright. Guess new clutch arms will be extremely hard to find.

And now pictures please.

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V

Edited by - melle on 27 Apr 2014 13:02:39
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Andyinthegarage
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
357 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2014 :  12:55:10 Show Profile Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by UK_Sub
Picked up a new project today, but the clutch might need replacing...

When the clutch pedal is fully depressed it sounds like the clutch arms are catching - basically a horrible din!


Possibly a bit late for this, but is there a pile of spacer washers behind the slave cylinder? If so and before you go taking the engine out, I suggest you remove them and re-adjust the movement at the bell housing adjuster. Give pedal a few full strokes with engine off before you start it and try again, it allows everything to settle into the right place.
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Lupo
V4 Fan

Switzerland
105 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2014 :  15:08:24 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I have the same problem and I guess it is due to new release bearing (not anymore original) which is probably thinner as the original. I decided to take out the motor and add a small disk 3 4 mm thick to pressure plate (counterpart to release bearing). Ill do it on May, then Ill send the report with photos.
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2563 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2014 :  16:46:59 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
You have a point there Lupo, Look at the difference:



The crappy looking one to the right is what you get nowadays from F&S, the numbers are the diameters of the axis stubs. I also measured the thickness of the bearings, but I can't find the pics.

By the way, I think it's only the housing that differs, might be worth replacing the 6007ZZ ball bearing that seems to sit inside most of them. Those cost less than a fiver, but I've never tried it myself as of yet.

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V
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Lupo
V4 Fan

Switzerland
105 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2014 :  17:18:25 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Yes Melle there must be some difference, I have LUK release bearing there. which is sold as substitution also for V4s, but originally it is for AUDI. I measured the movement on slave cylinder and it shows 15 mm from base position (adjusting screw almost out) to touch the pressure plate position. The free movement has to be 4 mm, so 11 mm is excessive which corresponds 5 mm excessive gap on release bearing. Its too much.
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2563 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2014 :  17:24:32 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
I'm pretty sure F&S and LUK clutch sets are identical.

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V
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Lupo
V4 Fan

Switzerland
105 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2014 :  17:37:43 Show Profile Reply with Quote
The thickness of original saab supplied bearing is 12 mm measured from centre of nipple to active surface. Can somebody check the F&S or LUK bearing?
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UK_Sub
Moderator

United Kingdom
2154 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2014 :  22:43:47 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Looks like I do have a couple of washers behind the slave cylinder and the adjustment bolt(?)





So I should take out all the washers and give it a try, or just the ones behind the slave cylinder?



Oh and here's the project, trying to hide down the drive!


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john-saab
Administrator

United Kingdom
2669 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2014 :  07:21:34 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Did this car come from the Bognor Regis area?

'72 95 (The Flying Banana),'72 96(Bridget),'72 96 (green one)'73 96 (Vernon),'74 95 (Veronica)
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Dirtbiker
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
637 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2014 :  08:53:53 Show Profile Visit Dirtbiker's Homepage Reply with Quote
Come on Simon - lets see a picture of this project from the side!
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UK_Sub
Moderator

United Kingdom
2154 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2014 :  09:33:25 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Hi John, the car is from up North, what's the one from Bognor Regis?

I'll post a side picture, once my question has been answered - how's that for an incentive ;)
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Lupo
V4 Fan

Switzerland
105 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2014 :  10:26:57 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Hi Simon, the washers on the bolt of slave cylinder has no effect on clutch function, its only a fixing bolt. The position of adjusting bolt is important, but if you take the washers out and you tide the bolt you worsen the situation because you push the arm more against friction. Anyhow your adjusting bolt is not correct, it has to be without head and with position fixing nut, only so you can do quickly the fine adjustment.
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