| Author |  Topic  |
Genty
V4 Mad
628 Posts |  Posted - 14 Jan 2008 : 15:35:13  
| I am looking into getting some 4 bolt hubs made up. They would be the Ford 4 x 108pcd pattern.
This is partly for the ubiquitous choice of wheels but also to match the Ford drums that will go on the rear. Getting drums made up would costs a fortune so I am letting that lead my choice.
The cost lies in getting the spline machined into the hub. I have the measurements for the hub which will then accept an Alfa Romeo front disc with the standard calliper.
What you would need for the conversion is:
- Wheels & tyres.
- Ford 8" drums. I need to check this re the bearings you will need but apparently it is fairly simple.
- A pair of Alfa discs.
- These lovely hubs.
Right. Bad news.
The cost for the machining of the spline alone is around £1000 to set the special tool up. plus £25 for each batch plus £2.25 for each hub.
I personally don't have £1300 for a pair of hubs but getting 10 pairs done knocks this down to about £110 for the machining (per pair) plus the cost of the blank hub. I need to get a cost for this but cant see it costing more than £50 a pair.
What I need to know is...
Are there 9 others out there who would pay £160 for these hubs? Of course you will need a few other things (the wheels drums and discs).
I would also like to know what you would want the hubs to be made of?
Aluminium is one option - easy to machine the blank from and lightweight - but is it too soft?
Steel would be stronger but rust?
I would imagine the cost of Stainless Steel would be too prohibitive.
Let me know if you are interested and your views on materials and I can then look into getting the blanks made.
If this is a go-er I am happy to put my money in to secure the order. This would be a significant figure but If I have some solid interest I will take care of that.
Genty
www.performance96.co.uk |
Edited by - Genty on 18 Mar 2008 17:07:01 |
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dr_d
V4 Beginner
United Kingdom
50 Posts | Posted - 14 Jan 2008 : 15:57:31
| Put me down for one set please. (maybe 2)
You might want to investigate ceramic discs the cost these days is on the par with stainless. Cast ones will rust like hell and not very suitable for competition and aluminium is too soft and will warp under heat. |
Edited by - dr_d on 14 Jan 2008 16:02:12 |  |
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Genty
V4 Mad
628 Posts | Posted - 14 Jan 2008 : 18:50:40
| Sorry - the original post read discs when I meant hubs.
The discs are Alfa off the shelf.
Genty
www.performance96.co.uk | |
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UK_Sub
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2558 Posts | Posted - 14 Jan 2008 : 22:55:39
| | Couldn't you just re-drill the original hubs? | |
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Kooda
V4 Fanatic
United Kingdom
250 Posts | Posted - 14 Jan 2008 : 23:45:59
| Drilling a 4x108 would be difficult because the new holes are likely to clash with the existing holes. I spoke to Durmot about re drilling and tapping the hubs and he said it was in principal do-able with a 5 bolt pattern as the the gaps would be consistantly spaced relitave to the existing holes. The ridge that locates the wheel on the hub would have to be removed too. This of course all depends on the inner profile of the wheel clearing the large hub flange assocaited with the 170 PCD. May or may not be easier than the custom hubs.
I understand that the Escort rear hubs are a streight swap?
What wheels would you use?
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UK_Sub
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2558 Posts | Posted - 14 Jan 2008 : 23:55:17
| | Wasn't there a blue two-tone 96 with alloy wheels (ford pattern) on here before, that said he'd used mk3 Escort front discs too? Unfortunately he didn't go into any detail . . . | |
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Genty
V4 Mad
628 Posts | Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 06:54:01
| yes he did say that about the Escort hubs but he is wrong. I don't know what hubs he has.
As for wheels I want a nice set of white 16" minilites! Or...16" steel wheels (much cheaper) ideally with the little pegs welded on so that I can retain the hub caps - not too obvious 
Genty
www.performance96.co.uk | |
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Graminal95
V4 Beginner
USA
87 Posts | Posted - 15 Jan 2008 : 08:33:04
| Now what about using the stock hubs, turn them down, add a little Al for locating the disc and wheel, use 80 something-86 900 front disc for non vented and 87-88 for vented, and adding a better caliper. Then for the rear use saab 99 rear hubs with an adapter plate for the caliper to make its 4 disc. This would give you 4 1/2in bolt circle, I think thats 108, but I'm not sure. I think I posted photos before of my front setup but I can;t remember.
http://picasaweb.google.com/GWCullen/RallyCarBrakes
In the second photo, you can see I sandwiched the cast hub with Al, but I later removed the rear Al so only the front part is needed. I have had no problems with this setup except getting the wheel to clear the big old caliper and that just took a 5mm spacer. Calipers are from a rx7 and were 10 USD at a junk yard.
It would be nice to have proper hubs though. I remember hearing about 7 or 8yr ago that there was a guy in the UK with the right broach to make the hubs, but thats all I can remember. | |
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freewheeler
V4 Mad
United Kingdom
601 Posts | Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 12:28:07
| Would it be possible to machine and recover the splined section of a standard hub and have generic splines machined around it matched to fit newly machined splines on the new 4-stud hub and have it pressed in. Just thinking of reducing costs for setting engineering tools specifically for the complex saab spline profile. It must be cheaper to set up for a less complex "off the shelf" spline profile. Just a thought
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http://www.lihikset.net/images/kuuppa/index.htm
http://www.saabphotos.com/gallery/My-other-saabs
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Genty
V4 Mad
628 Posts | Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 13:13:30
| That is a sterling idea which I had considered. I was under the impression that the hubs were cast and that threw a spanner in the works because machining cast iron is a biatch. Although recently someone said they were steel. If that is the case I will scrub all plans and just get the std ones machined! I'll let you know the outcome.
Genty
www.performance96.co.uk | |
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Graminal95
V4 Beginner
USA
87 Posts | Posted - 18 Jan 2008 : 14:15:25
| The stock ones are cast iron and easy to machine. I think I had about 1.5 hours each machining down the hub then another 1.5 to do the Al part. I was 16 at the time and not that proficient at machining, a pro could most likely do it in 2/3s the time. The rear disc are even easier, but make a backing plate to match the caliper and spacing for the disc you choose and get a set of 99 rear hubs, kiss one of the bearing seats on the lathe and your there.
If I was in the US I would get all the info for you, but I've moved across the pond and all my Saab stuff is still in the states. | |
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Genty
V4 Mad
628 Posts | Posted - 22 Jan 2008 : 21:56:05
| I have spoken with a chap in the Netherlands (I think). He is working on several hubs at the moment; 3 'authentic' Saab Sport hubs with 0mm 5mm and 9mm offset so that you can have a wider track width and fit the 99 minilites but still falls within FIA regulations. Problem here is the distinct lack of Saab Sport discs.
He is also working on a 114.3mm hub which accepts the 9000 vented disc on the rear. 114.3mm is also the Saab 99 hub pcd. Ideal if you want 15" Saab miniites on your v4.
The hubs are all aircraft grade aluminium so reduced unsprung weight = good thing. These should all be ready around July.
He also told me about his plans for a 2.0 V4 kit with approx 120bhp from a 36/36 carb Must find out more about this - especially with a 9:38 final drive - whoohoo! Ok so still stuck with 4 gears but retaining Saab authenticity.
More avenues to explore!
They have been trailing a Mobil SHC oil in the gearbox and managed to push 160bhp through it from a Mazda engine and the box, bearings and synchros are all fine with no signs of letting up. Looks promising.
As soon as I know more I will pass it on.
Genty
www.performance96.co.uk | |
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Graminal95
V4 Beginner
USA
87 Posts | Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 07:10:36
| Is the 2.0l kit with a new crank? or is it way over bored?
You can make a 120hp v4 in 1.78L trim. Big valves, a little porting in the head, 7.6 cam, solid lifers, 92mm pistons, and a 2bbl with a 36/36 DCD. I drove one cross country this summer, would have been much better with the 9:38.
I know the parts are easier to get in the UK then the states, and should be fairly easy to put together. | |
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Genty
V4 Mad
628 Posts | Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 12:52:10
| The 2.0 V4 kit is - as I understand and am awaiting confirmation - a reground 1.7 crank, VW Forged 94mm pistons and modified BMW con rods. As the pistons are 94mm i.e. the same as the 1855cc spec and they need for differnet con rods I would have thought that the crank has an offset regrind to increase the stroke.
I have got a 1700 crank as I was planning a 1855 overbore but am definitely going to hang on until I get more info. At least I now have lots of time to remove clean and strip the engine and gearbox!
I have asked a few more questions and will pass the info on.
Genty
www.performance96.co.uk | |
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Graminal95
V4 Beginner
USA
87 Posts | Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 20:00:17
| | I have a good friend who has just that, only with custom rods/pistons. I think he has just over the 200hp, but on his second crank, at that power what can you expect. I hope you get a monster engine up and running soon, they are sooo much fun. | |
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Genty
V4 Mad
628 Posts | Posted - 23 Jan 2008 : 21:55:59
| Just done some maths and to increase the capacity with 94mm pistons you need to increase the stroke by 5mm. This means an offset regrind with an overall reduction of crankshaft con rod journals of 10mm taking this down to about 45mm diameter! Just ahd this confirmed by a chap in Sweden. This will make a very weak crank so I am not as excited anymore! The actual capacity is 1993cc.
You can keep the std 1.7 crank and fit 97mm pistons but will need the cylinders sleeved. The first version gives a better result form a performance perspective - oversquare stroke and all that but with a weaker crank. The second version leaves you with a strong crank but questionable cylinder bores. Maybe I should just stick to the 1855cc plan as it has been proven a bit more.
200bhp on your mates V4 - what has he done to the gearbox? Or does he change it with the oil!
Genty
www.performance96.co.uk | |
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| Topic | |
Alternative hubs
