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 92.3mm Pinto pistons
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Tristared
V4 Fan

United Kingdom
181 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2014 :  17:05:44 Show Profile Reply with Quote
This is going to be in direct contradiction with a lot of advice, and I can only give you my angle on it for which I apologise to those linked to this subject.

I do not advocate the use of copper gaskets, I've tried every conceivable trick in the book, and the only compression I managed to achieve was of the cooling system.

Take it from me as someone who is now putting my engine back together for the third time having tried to avoid at all costs the skimming of the pistons in search of a higher compression ratio - this (in my mind) is the only route to take.

Otherwise you're going to be chasing inlet manifold gaskets, anti freeze and more importantly re-ringed head gaskets - that invariably never materialise, whilst your car sits in a barn gathering dust.

Edited by - Tristared on 08 Oct 2014 17:08:50
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2429 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2014 :  17:24:27 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
Ed, you seem to be the only one with hands on experience with this matter, so I would say there's no need for apologies. Would you mind going a bit more into detail on what you tried in your the copper gaskets thread (http://www.saab-v4.co.uk/speedball/topic.asp?topic_id=6148)? I'm sure your experience holds very valuable information for other forum members, myself included.

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V
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Krister K
Starting Member

Sweden
36 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2014 :  21:55:42 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Just got the engine block back from the machine shop! 92.3mm bore and new cam- and balanceshaft bearings! :)



Saab 96 v4 '75b
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Krister K
Starting Member

Sweden
36 Posts

Posted - 13 Nov 2014 :  21:59:59 Show Profile Reply with Quote

Unknown camshaft... Been looking for some information about it, but no luck so far. It`s in the engine now, so we`ll see what kind of cam it is at test drive...


Saab 96 v4 '75b
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Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1791 Posts

Posted - 13 Nov 2014 :  23:14:59 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Did you measure the lobes? Would be useful.
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Krister K
Starting Member

Sweden
36 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2014 :  15:59:57 Show Profile Reply with Quote
No, I did not measure it in any way... I have a 7.6 in the 1500 that is in the car now, so if this unknown cam is to "hot" I will swap them.

The heads are now at the machine shop to be fitted with v6 valves. They (he) will
also fit the new pistons to the rods. I've order new valve springs (v6) to, should arrive any day.


Saab 96 v4 '75b
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Woody
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2398 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2014 :  17:37:20 Show Profile Reply with Quote
If the cam is in the block you can measure the lift by see how much a valve lifter moves between the heel and toe of the cam lobe. Try also measuring each cam lobe using the same lifter.
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Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1791 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2014 :  17:46:38 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Depending on how much of your engine is back together it might be possible to at least get a basic idea of the lift. Going expert, a clock gauge and a degree wheel would tell you much more. Any numbers might be matchable against a cam list from the usual suspects. If it's some ultra racy folk race cam it might be coming out sooner than you think!

FYI http://www.saab-v4.co.uk/speedball/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10315&SearchTerms=S&R,camshafts
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Krister K
Starting Member

Sweden
36 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2014 :  21:18:46 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I measured the lift by mounting a lifter and measuring the stroke it did, and I measured it to about 8mm, give or take some tenths... :)

Saab 96 v4 '75b
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Krister K
Starting Member

Sweden
36 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2014 :  21:24:30 Show Profile Reply with Quote
The v4:s rockers have a value (?) of 1.5, right..? The lift at the valve should then be 12mm (give or take those tenths...) which is the number the cam is stamped with, UA 12.

Saab 96 v4 '75b
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Krister K
Starting Member

Sweden
36 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2015 :  21:23:54 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I got the heads and pistons/rods back from the machine shop today, so now I can finish the bottom end, and start porting the heads.



Saab 96 v4 '75b
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rsimps
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1616 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  14:49:20 Show Profile Reply with Quote
for 93mm we use to chamfer the outer edge of the piston to clear. At 94 you need to get the gasket re-flame ringed. I personally would now use the wills rings Burtons sell for the pinto and have the head skimmed and grooved to suit. You would then need a 0.8 solid gasket for the outer water/oil ways, or something like the red Saab gasket that was made for the copper rings (approx. 1mm thick).
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GeoffC
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
355 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  19:37:22 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I had a set of those red gaskets on PUP and never had a head gasket problem. Any idea if you can still get them or something similar?
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Woody
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2398 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  21:18:23 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I got equivalents to SS&R's head gaskets via TurboKar and Rallyesport Sweden in the early 90s. Shown below on The Troll's engine. The copper rings fitted well into the grooves that had been cut back in 1975 according to Comp.Dept blueprints for geniune SS&R rings and red gaskets.
The lower pic is clockwise - Top left - standard; top right - SS&R reinforced, bttm right - SS&R red for CU Rings, bttm Left - compatible gaskets for use with CU rings and CU rings.
The compatibles do the job but quality wise weren't as good as the originals to install.
Surely there must be demand for these gaskets both re-inforced and CU ring for the larger bore. Mine are for 91mm pistons.
see this link for camshaft markings:-
http://www.saab-v4.co.uk/speedball/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2106&SearchTerms=camshaft


Edited by - Woody on 23 Feb 2015 22:10:29
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rsimps
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1616 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2015 :  00:52:40 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I had Malbrads get a set made to the red gasket patterns I have. They also had some 94mm flame rings put in some good gaskets, I have a set somewhere.
Peter Lumsden was having some motorsport spec items made, but I don't know where he is with that project.
The rings I am on about are a larger od version of the rings used on Hillman Imps. I believe the gas filled rings are the same section as the Imp. They are far better than a copper ring and they compress more and don't suffer leakage problems from initial setting up like the old way of doing it.
We had some copper rings made a few years ago. These were done to suit the exact block as you find all sorts of variations in machining in old blocks that have been ringed. I have a set to suit a ringed block I have and Cierog Hughes had some to suit one of his engines.
I use Imp wills rings on 2 strokes now because everyone was having problems with solid gaskets. I just use an xp gasket scribe the opened up bores onto it, add a larger dia scribe line and open the gasket up with a rotary flapper sanding wheel.
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