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 Rebuilding door locks
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deggsie
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
287 Posts

Posted - 25 Aug 2015 :  13:51:09 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I have been struck by the number of V4 door and boot locks that are being advertised as in good condition but without keys.

Are there any experts who could post a 'master class' on the forum to advise for example whether it is possible:
a) to remove lock cylinders without a key (the manuals advise drilling the pin, but this would knacker spoil the mechanism) and
b) to 'fit' existing keys to lock cylinders by repositioning the plungers.

My passenger door lock has a different key to the driver's side and boot, so in theory I ought to be able to 'adjust' the cylinder to accept the same key.

All advice gratefully received !

___________________________
Saab - beyond the conventional !

Edited by - deggsie on 19 Sep 2017 19:01:43

andydeans3
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
970 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2015 :  17:42:11 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Deggsie
God idea. I'd certainly be interested in a little "training course"!

I've got 3 keys. One for the ignition and boot, and one for each door....
Very irritating.....


1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
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deggsie
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
287 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2015 :  18:10:38 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Andy
As you've got keys for all the locks, it ought to be possible to remove the cylinders and then move the (six or eight ?) different length plungers around to suit one of the other keys (I remember doing this with my first 96 back in the 70's).
It just needs an organised approach and a note of which plunger came from where, so you can revert to the existing setting if it doesn't work.
I imagine the locks all need to be roughly the same 'vintage', as some keys are single-sided and other double-sided.

___________________________
Saab - beyond the conventional !
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andydeans3
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
970 Posts

Posted - 27 Aug 2015 :  22:50:11 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Deggsie

Yep, my drivers door key is double sided,as is the ignition key. Passenger door key is however single sided.

Sounds toooo complicated to me!

Andy

1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
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deggsie
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
287 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2017 :  19:47:48 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Success (and it's only taken me two years to get around to it) !

I have managed to dismantle three later-model (post-72) door lock barrels/cylinders (without their keys) and then reposition the 6 x plunger sets so that the lock can be operated by my existing ignition key - woohoo !
A fiddly job, but the third one was much easier than the first.

Many thanks to Steve Bodiley for his workshop article (http://www.steves-workshop.co.uk/vehicles/saab96/lock/locks.html) which explains many of the principles (but not how to do it without a key, for which you have to 'persuade' the lock sheaths to clear the locking pin).



___________________________
Saab - beyond the conventional !

Edited by - deggsie on 07 Sep 2017 19:48:53
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James Ranaldi
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1357 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2017 :  20:06:33 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Genius . . . .well done Deggsie

1968 V4, LHD
1984 99 GL
1992 C900i Convertible
1993 C900 LPT Convertible
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2283 Posts

Posted - 08 Sep 2017 :  17:12:07 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
Years ago I've tried to match several locks to keys, but never had much luck. Got working locks but they were either very hard to operate or only worked properly with two or three spring/ pin assemblies. I also remember a lot of filing as I didn't have the correct pins. I had a set done by a pro as well, what a difference! Steve's explanation is great, wish I had that back then. It shows he's a proper engineer very much unlike me!

www.saabv4.com
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UK_Sub
Moderator

United Kingdom
2109 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2017 :  07:32:25 Show Profile Reply with Quote
According to my local locksmith only Rolls Royce and Skoda had similar lock setups to Saab, which makes them trickier to work on the most other car locks.
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deggsie
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
287 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2017 :  11:53:47 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Melle - I suspect the problem was the filing !
All of the plunger pairs need to be the same overall length (about 8mm - hence the longest bottom pin, needed for the deepest cut-out on the key, has the shortest top pin). The problem is not all cylinders use every available combination of pins (I think there are four different lengths); I had to cannibalise three locks to make two which worked on my original key. Tricky, but worthwhile in the end.

___________________________
Saab - beyond the conventional !
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ianh
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
227 Posts

Posted - 19 Sep 2017 :  22:01:54 Show Profile Reply with Quote
A few interesting posts from the past on the subject.
http://www.saab-v4.co.uk/speedball/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2487&SearchTerms=locks
I have swapped bits over in the past but my fingers are now thumbs so wouldn't be able to do it now!
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deggsie
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
287 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2017 :  08:04:25 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Thanks, Ian.
Woody's final post in this topic (21 Feb) actually mentions the 'prising' needed to remove the cover if you don't have the key - wish I'd seen that sooner !
I found a small pair of needle-nose pliers to be a good substitute for ageing fingers on this job.

___________________________
Saab - beyond the conventional !
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stevebod
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
296 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2017 :  14:52:00 Show Profile Visit stevebod's Homepage Reply with Quote
Nice work getting your locks fixed Deggsie, I am glad you found the document useful and could follow it!
I guess it should be possible to get some brass bar the right diameter and cut and file it to create new pins around a given key if you want to create matching lock sets.
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deggsie
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
287 Posts

Posted - 20 Sep 2017 :  15:31:53 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Cheers Steve, your document was a great help.
Not having the keys for the spare locks, I had to use a small probe to work the covers over the locking pins in order to remove them (important not to damage the covers too much so the locking pins can still work on re-assembly).

I'm not sure I'm sufficiently dedicated to cut/file my own pins from brass bar (any idea why the longer top pins are 'waisted' ?)
Having said that, I notice today that there is a V4 door lock plunger and key on eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152710572292?ul_noapp=true) for 120 ! If they succeed in getting anywhere near that, I might be tempted to go into production !

___________________________
Saab - beyond the conventional !

Edited by - deggsie on 20 Sep 2017 16:44:11
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stevebod
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
296 Posts

Posted - 21 Sep 2017 :  08:44:14 Show Profile Visit stevebod's Homepage Reply with Quote
Derek,
Perhaps there is money to be made if you can find a way to recondition locks, but I'd be surprised if there isn't anyone already doing it.
It would be nice to cut your own pins and create matched lock sets around one key wouldn't it.

I think the "necked" upper pins (called set pins) are a countermeasure against picking. If someone tries to move individual pins into place while tensioning the barrel (which is the basics of lock picking), they may find the barrel moves slightly as the neck of the pin reaches the shear line. It is then impossible to move the pins to the correct position without starting over. If you were making your own pins it would not be essential to have this feature.
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