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Graminal95
V4 Beginner

USA
87 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2015 :  03:29:16 Show Profile Reply with Quote
After killing my stock ring and pinion and talking with guys that have broken many of ring gear behind very hot V4 motors, I decided to try and do all that I can to make my 7:38 final drive last. I started with a cast iron ribbed case, added an oil spray bar to cool the ring and pinion after meshing along with the spraying onto the gears. I also added oil feeds to the shafts to take the place of the little oil catch troughs. This way I can keep the case from growing and opening up the gap between the pinion and ring gear. It also allows me to filter the oil which is never a bad thing.

I also wanted to get away from the deep groove ball bearings that hold the diff. carrier in place. There are substantial axial loads created at the ring and pinion interface and ball bearings do not take axial loading well, even with C3 clearance. So I was able to substitute some tapered roller bearings by machining 4mm off of the small bearing side of the carrier, and 1.75mm off of the spacer ring on the large bearing side. I am thinking about adding a girdle to join the two bearing caps together to minimize movement.

I'll let you guys know how it turns out. If things go well then I won't have to design and produce some uprated ring and pinions, but the 7:38's are getting hard to find.

I've also found alternatives to just about all the bearings in the transmission. I'll post the cross-reference sometime.












Edited by - Graminal95 on 09 Oct 2015 20:41:51

James Ranaldi
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1376 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2015 :  09:36:48 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Very interesting . . . . . .sounds like a good plan.

Any pictures ?

Thanks

1968 V4, LHD
1984 99 GL
1992 900i Convertible
2001 BMW E46 320 Ci
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2449 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2015 :  10:48:36 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
I'm following this with interest! If you're willing to write a how-to with cross references, pictures etc. I would be happy to add it to www.saabv4.com

www.saabv4.com

Edited by - melle on 06 Oct 2015 10:50:02
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Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1793 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2015 :  13:22:54 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Treat me gentle here but isn't one of the fail items the locking washer for the pinion nut? This allows the nut to loosen and causes loose meshing of the CW & P? I think an effective redesigned locker is available from one of the USA guys, maybe Sweden too.
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ratty
V4 Fanatic

226 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2015 :  00:17:36 Show Profile Reply with Quote
The nut shouldn't loosen if the correct Locktite is used, surely? What about an oil cooler as well whilst you are at it!?
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Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1793 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2015 :  13:26:07 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I don't think Loctite was used originally. I also don't think that the grade of Loctite that allows the nut to be undone reasonably easily is effective if it gets hot? Maybe there is a special one for that sort of application.
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Woody
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2398 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2015 :  19:32:17 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Have used Locktite thread lock on connecting rod nuts and flywheel bolts in past with no loosening problems. The pinion nut has to cope with much more torque stresses so I am not too surprised it slackens.
Never used it in transmissions.
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Graminal95
V4 Beginner

USA
87 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2015 :  02:43:45 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Did the pictures not work for you guys? I posted 8.

Derek you are correct, the pinion nut can come loose and cause tight running of the pinion to ring gear. That is until the speedo drive/spacers wear down and then it gets loose. This can be seen by the speedo jumping when you get on and off the throttle. This can be helped with the red loctite (263), and a new lock washer. The loctite can be undone with some heat (>350C) and the nut will comes off easily.

Melle, I'll get you some into for the cross reference once its complete. Thanks for putting that the info up on your site, its very useful.

An oil cooler will be put into the system along with a spin on oil filter. I'll get some pictures up once its plumbed. I'm trying to get the car back on the road for a rallycross next weekend, but I'm lacking free time and want to make sure this is all done correctly the first time.

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James Ranaldi
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1376 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2015 :  09:17:33 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Good morning Graminal95,

No pictures but there are eight little empty boxes in your first post where the pictures should be.






1968 V4, LHD
1984 99 GL
1992 900i Convertible
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UK_Sub
Moderator

United Kingdom
2136 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2015 :  09:32:28 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Looking at the code, the images should display OK, it might have something to do with where they're hosted?

Might be worth trying a dedicated image host - like Photobucket, or if you send them to me - I'll put them up for you.


Cheers, Simon
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2449 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2015 :  09:37:05 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
I tried quoting the opening post and I could see the links to the images, al formatted correctly. I copied an image link into my browser and got redirected to a Google sign in page, so I'm afraid you'll have to change the account settings from private to public to enable us to see the pics. Thanks in advance, looking forward to learning more about gearboxes as they are pretty much undiscovered terrain for me.

www.saabv4.com
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James Ranaldi
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1376 Posts

Posted - 09 Oct 2015 :  21:03:07 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Whoohoo . . . .pictures !

That's some set up that you have Graminal95.

Great stuff

1968 V4, LHD
1984 99 GL
1992 900i Convertible
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ratty
V4 Fanatic

226 Posts

Posted - 10 Oct 2015 :  00:32:54 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Gram just got the picis! Well done I need to study too late tonight! You are going in the right direction for the most robust, trouble free gear box.In my opinion! Well done,
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Graminal95
V4 Beginner

USA
87 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2015 :  18:27:23 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Could anyone run out to there V4 and take a picture with a ruler that shows the distance from where the drain plug enters from the transmission to the bottom of the engine compartment from below? I would like to pull oil from the drain plug and know the clearance is small but I'm unsure how small.
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Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1793 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2015 :  22:20:15 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Can't give you an answer to that but the question of clearance makes me ask if the pipework on the rear cover will clear the bulkhead when the rear mounting spigot is fully home. ?
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Graminal95
V4 Beginner

USA
87 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2015 :  13:19:33 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Well I found out this morning that there is not enough clearance in the floor, so that will need to be modified for the suction side of the system. Derek, when I did the initial mock up of the rear cover there was room but things do change and I'll hopefully know tomorrow if it will all fit.

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