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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2252 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2016 :  23:41:44 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
I want to convert my 96 to electric fan on the next engine-out job (in fact I will fit a new engine as the balance shaft bearings on the current one have given in and I need to adjust the valves every 300 miles). I'm away from the workshop at the moment, could anyone please measure a radiator for me so I can check at the scrappy what I can possibly fit?

I use a C900 fan on my engine test bench, but will need something a bit shallower in the car (despite using a factory pulleyless timing gear cover).

www.saabv4.com

Edited by - melle on 01 Mar 2016 16:10:51

Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1778 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2016 :  12:39:40 Show Profile Reply with Quote
You can do it the way that's described in this linked article but it's much easier to fit a slim modern electric fan in front of the standard radiator. Quick neat and easy. Beware the rad in the car isn't central so if fitting to the front mark the centre of the rad against the front panel before removal. Picture of my install on this thread
http://www.saab-v4.co.uk/speedball/topic.asp?topic_id=2095&whichpage=1

http://www.vsaab.com/html/Articles/Cooling.htm

http://www.saab-v4.co.uk/articles/kenlowe_fan/main.htm

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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2252 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2016 :  15:22:39 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
Thanks Derek, also thanks to Jim for emailing me the rad dimensions:

quote:
Length is 485mm
Height is 395mm
Depth is 115mm
The clearance from the back of the radiator core to the front face of the balance shaft pulley on my car is 70mm


I was thinking of using a fan behind the rad, but a pusher might be an even better option as it leaves more room around the engine. My 96 doesn't have headlamp wipers, so no interference issues there.

I don't see the point in using an overpriced Kenlowe or similar as long as good used fans can be picked up for a tenner or less. I'll be using a VW Golf/ Saab 900 thermoswitch in a 900 aircon T-piece in the top hose and I'm sure the scrapyard will also house a usable relay. I was originally inclined to add an override switch, however, I now doubt the need for one.

www.saabv4.com
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2252 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2016 :  16:32:25 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
It seems P38 Range Rover aircon fans will work. They're siamesed but look like they will split.



www.saabv4.com
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andydeans3
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
938 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2016 :  10:56:07 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Melle

Better fitting it in front of the radiator for another reason.
It allows you to quickly refit the longer fan belt on the back, to bring the mechanical fan into play again, in a situation where you suddenly need some extra cooling.
This happened to me on a blistering hot day, on the Autobahn in Germany last summer.
I was pushing the old girl hard, temperature started to creep up, not quite to red, but enough to worry about
Took 10 minutes to stop at a service station to refit the original fan belt, hey presto problem solved.
Took it off again the next day.

Andy

1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo

Edited by - andydeans3 on 02 Mar 2016 11:00:28
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2252 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2016 :  12:49:40 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
I wonder if a fan/ the fans have any influence on cooling above, say, 30mph? Could your 10 minute stop at the service station, and not the added action of the original fan, have solved the issue? I've never had any problems with V4s with bog standard cooling systems on hot days at high speeds and in traffic jams (I've spent many an hour on the Autobahn at 85-90 mph and at sat in queues at the Elbe tunnel near Hamburg!). The only time I had an engine overheat, the cause was a blown head gasket.

Refitting the original fanbelt is not going to happen anyway as I'll be removing the old fan assy altogether and using a flat timing gear cover. As said, I'm satisfied a healthy standard cooling system should be up for the job; I'm installing an electric fan for other reasons. 1, I want the fan to be able to work when it's needed, namely also after the engine has been switched off, and 2. I want to diminish the load on the balance shaft bearings. I also like the idea of an electric water pump.

www.saabv4.com
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2252 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2016 :  20:44:17 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
Got a used Peugeot 307 HDI fan off eBay, 12 delivered! Not too sure I can fit it in front of the rad though, it's bloody huge:



I hope I can make this work, if not I'll use it on my test bench and raid the scrapyard for something else for the 96.

www.saabv4.com
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Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1778 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2016 :  11:34:04 Show Profile Reply with Quote
That's a neat fan and a lot better looking than the RR pair. Clockwise rotation on that one. It's about 3" bigger than the one I used, but note you can't have it any higher than mine or it will foul the slam panel. You will have a bit of spare fan at the bottom I think but that won't do any harm as long as it doesn't foul anything. Mountings might all go on the front panel using angle brackets?

Edited by - Derek on 05 Apr 2016 11:44:57
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2252 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2016 :  17:05:48 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
It's reasonably shallow for such a monster, but I'm still a bit concerned there won't be enough space between the rad and the grille. I'll add a sheet metal shroud to force the air through the rad.

www.saabv4.com
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Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1778 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2016 :  00:16:10 Show Profile Reply with Quote
This may give you an idea as to how the fan fits behind the grill. It is a '76 plastic one. View this along with the one in the link with the earlier post. Note my comment about the Pug fitting low but there is a slot as an air intake at the bottom of the front panel so some air will be sucked into that. It would be interesting to see the Pug fan mocked up on the car.


This pic also shows the need to have the top of the fan down far enough to clear the slam panel.
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2252 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2016 :  11:58:46 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
Thanks for the pic, looks good! Will investigate the possibility of shoehorning the Peugeot fan in next time I'm in the workshop, not before the summer I'm afraid.

www.saabv4.com
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green96v4
V4 Fanatic

Canada
290 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2016 :  14:40:48 Show Profile Visit green96v4's Homepage Reply with Quote
Derek that project looks good, do you have anymore images?
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Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1778 Posts

Posted - 06 Apr 2016 :  17:20:24 Show Profile Reply with Quote
It's long past a project as that picture was taken 16.6.2006!
Car is now in Brisbane Australia. I miss it.
I have more pics of the fan install if there is anything specific you're interested in. See the first link in the previous post without the front panel on.

http://www.saab-v4.co.uk/speedball/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2749&SearchTerms=mr,brown,brisbane
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2252 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2016 :  14:36:54 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
I recently had some workshop time, so here's a long overdue update. Unfortunately the big boy Peugeot fan won't fit in front of the radiator. My imagination clearly failed me; I was planning to use a timing cover without a fan pulley and move the rad towards the engine to make room for the fan in front of it. Alas, this will not work as the balance shaft pulley fouls the lower pipe. I could maybe make it fit by cutting the front valance, but that's not an option for me. No penny wasted on the Peugeot fan though, I'll fit it on my test bench where I have plenty space in all directions.



It looks bigger in the photo than it actually is, in reality it fits the rad quite nicely.


So onto plan B, a 99 or 900 fan fitted behind the rad. This works out more or less satisfactory when fitted to the far left of the rad to clear said pulley, but there is hardly any clearance to the timing cover. I ran out of time, but I think I can create about 10mm play by modifying the fan mounts.





yes, I will also move the shield if I use this set up.


I still prefer a pushing fan, so any ideas about what standard car fan might fit in front of the rad are welcome. I'm not yet willing to fork out for Kenlowe and the like and I don't want a cheapy generic eBay fan either. Another option to make a big fan fit in front of the rad is a slim but wide radiator with a lower pipe that exits the rad more or less behind and below the right headlamp. This way the rad can be moved further backwards. I have a C900 rad, but noticed the pipes are fitted "the wrong way around". I think this is a good excuse to check out the local breakers' yards.

Should anyone have one or two (96 engine and test bench) C900 cooling fan relays they're willing to part with please give me a shout. I have two spare C900 aircon temperature override switches from the C900 T-pieces I'm using for the temp switch in the top hose. I have no means to test them, but if anyone's interested they're welcome to them.

www.saabv4.com
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