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 Industrial/ stationary V4s
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2342 Posts

Posted - 14 Feb 2017 :  18:21:42 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
As most of you probably know, the Ford Cologne V4 engine has been used in many different applications. Apart from as car engines in Fords, Saabs and Matras, they were used as power sources for amongst others snow mobiles (Thiokol), skid steer loaders (Ford, Mustang, Owatonna), saw mills, boats, pumps, generators, fork lifts etc., mainly in the US and also in Germany. In the US the engine is also known as the Ford Industrial 91cid (1.5) or 104cid (1.7).

I've had a plan looming in the back of my head for a while to build a 96-axelled trailer to go with my 95 van (if that gets finished before the world runs out of oil reserves), with a V4-powered air compressor and generator/ welder. Just because I can; I have most of the parts anyway and I like to build stuff.

Does anyone have more information on power take-offs that were available for stationary V4s or ideas on how to fab something up? What I basically need is a drive shaft with a pulley, directly driven by the crank. I don't think I need a gearbox, I can calculate what rpm I need to run the engine to make sufficient torque and sort the gearing with the pulleys or a small reduction gearbox. I also don't see the need for a reverse. I'm not sure if I need a clutch on the engine, I think a simple belt tensioner is an easier and more fitting solution here. It's not too hard to couple a drive shaft to the engine, but I wonder if I should devise some kind of flex/ Hardy joint between the crank shaft and a journalled drive shaft, especially since it pulls load sideways? Using a (steel) Ford type 9 bellhousing and a cheap Ford clutch is a possibility if I do want a clutch, I could bolt a shaft housing onto it and this way the flywheel is covered (h&s mind!). Using the Saab bellhousing isn't the most logical solution for this application because of its (fwd) design.

I'm not sure what kind of weight the flywheel should be. I know a chap who is building a V4 powered wooden '30s speedboat replica; he uses a 4kg flywheel, can't remember where this figure came from. I guess there are ways to calculate flywheel weights? I'll have a peek in my Machinery's Handbook, but ideas are welcome.

The other thing that bothers me is the governor that I'll need to keep the rpm steady under load. On some industrial V4s nice belt driven Hoof governors were used, but they are very expensive; if you can find one that is. Is there a (preferably cheap) generic alternative I could use? I was thinking that maybe a cruise control set from a Saab 900 could do the job, but I like mechanical governors.

If anyone happens to have industrial/ stationary V4 brochures/ manuals/ parts lists/ images, I'm very eager to have see them. I have a Ford Industrial V4 parts list and a few user manuals (English and German), but it's not easy to find images of actual V4s in industrial applications. I'm probably the only nerd interested in this sort of thing anyway...

Don't hold your breath for the final product; I'm very faithful to my plans, but they tend to take years to execute!

www.saabv4.com

Woody
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2386 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2017 :  22:22:31 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Stationary engines used to have steel balance shaft gears. There must be photos out there of one in use, though I haven't seen any.
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2342 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2017 :  23:23:08 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
You're right Woody, "special cast iron" to be precise according to my '67 Industrial V4 parts book. Do you know of any industrial V4s in the UK? Any info appreciated!

Photos are hard to find, these are the only ones I've located on the web so far:









(Source: http://www.forumsforums.com/3_9/showthread.php?t=75494)




(Source: http://cats.klaxon-parts.ru/agriculture/63579-63579/)


The engine in the pics has a Rockford PTO; I can't imagine this was developed with only the wee Ford V4 in mind. It just occurred to me that the gearbox bolt pattern on the engine is very likely an SAE pattern, which would perhaps mean there is more out there that fits. However, I don't suppose I'll find something in Europe, and shipping from the States is expensive. I studied the parts book again today and it looks like there is no need for a Hardy coupling. In my parts book and also in an operator's manual I have is a different PTO with a slimmer design.

Here is a pdf parts book: http://fordv4parts.myshopify.com/collections/types?q=Manual (I can highly recommend these guys, friendly and very helpful folks.)

www.saabv4.com
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2342 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2017 :  23:39:54 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
Looks like the bellhousing bolt pattern is SAE 5, which seems to be very common. I'll check below dimensions on an engine next time I'm in the workshop.



www.saabv4.com
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Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1785 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2017 :  11:51:22 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Clutch used for example, on band saws and irrigation pumps. Also when used with a portable suction pump or generator, lighting or welding, again as examples. The bracket on the Rockford bell housing is for locking off the lever in the in/out position via the two notches. Lever fitted to the splined shaft.
Engine originally for the small Ford Cardinal economy car designed at the time of the Suez crisis. That was overcome so the engine adopted by Ford Germany.
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Zagato
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
744 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2017 :  22:05:53 Show Profile Reply with Quote
I got into stationary engines for a while and had a Lister CS. Not the smallest things in the world but the heavy flywheels would make light work of most jobs chugging away 24 hours a day. Great for waking up the neighbours, especially with a band saw attached.

Just cannot see a V4 doing similar jobs so efficiently and economically.

My wife wanted me to buy her a jumper with a picture of a pony on the front so we could take our caravan and sit behind the stationary engine at village shows . Nah, she made me sell it

Edited by - Zagato on 16 Feb 2017 22:11:16
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2342 Posts

Posted - 16 Feb 2017 :  22:38:40 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
My father in law and his brother (a retired marine engine and diesel mechanic) had loads of Listers, great engines. I live close to the Kennet and Avon Canal, still regularly see/ hear narrow boats with Listers. So much nicer than those boring hire boats with their "whisper" engines.

Perhaps the downside of the V4 is the short stroke, so you need a bunch rpm for decent torque, but it still is a 65hp engine. However, the upside definitely is the compact design. I don't need a stationary engine, just want one because I can and for what I want with it I suppose a V4 will do great. If I happened to be into old Volvos I guess I would use a Volvo engine. Anything goes, as long as it spins!

www.saabv4.com

Edited by - melle on 17 Feb 2017 10:27:19
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Zagato
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
744 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  08:32:49 Show Profile Reply with Quote
What are you going to use if for Melle?

A detailed engine with a nice BIG chrome Scammell truck rad would look great somewhere

Edited by - Zagato on 17 Feb 2017 08:34:38
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2342 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  10:25:20 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
See opening post. ;) And no chrome for me, I prefer monochrome for "industrial" applications. I think everything painted e.g. Caterpillar yellow will look great.

www.saabv4.com
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Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1785 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  11:16:44 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Has to be Ford blue tractor paint.
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2342 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  17:00:43 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
I already have a blue engine so it won't be blue, but tractor enamel is excellent stuff.

www.saabv4.com
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2342 Posts

Posted - 30 Jan 2018 :  12:43:36 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
Saab V4 powered log splitter on YouTube:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSrtfs_kOKA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV4CFQq4e6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrgC2T-UbTs

www.saabv4.com
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beardydave
Starting Member

49 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2018 :  07:14:52 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Its a ssab engine, so monte carlo yellow surely?
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