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andydeans3
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1077 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2017 :  11:49:44 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Chaps
Am I correct in saying that there is no way to adjust the alignment of the rear wheels?
My rear, right wheel is heavily scuffed on the inside.

Using axle stands, and twine, and a digital caliper, (having removed the plastic centre caps, and grease caps on the rear wheels), I set up the twine exactly equidistant from the four axles ends, and measured the distance from the front and rear of each wheel edge.
The offending rear wheel appears to be toed in by 2 mm.

Is the tyre being scuffed on the inside, consistent, with the wheel being toed in slightly??

The other rear wheel, is very lightly scuffed, and shows a toe in of 0.8 mm.
Front wheels show more wear on the inside edges, and seem to have a toe in of 2 mm on each side, so total 4 mm. Manual says is should be 0 +- 1mm, but again is this excessive toe in consistent with the tyres wearing more heavily on the inside edges?

Now I accept that working with twine, and axles stands is a bit Heath Robinson!!
As per my posting on the UKSAABS site, I've yet to find a garage that can check the alignment with the correct equipment, due to the inability to hang their measuring devices on the back wheels.

Andy



1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo

72sonett3
V4 Fanatic

Spain
237 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2017 :  18:50:37 Show Profile Reply with Quote
You are correct.
If the alignment is off it may be a bent axle or axle stub.

Keep looking for another garage where they do have the right equipment, if you are ever in the north of NL I can take you to one... :-)

--
'72 97
'77 96L conv.
'79 96GL (LPG)
'83 900i (LPG)
'95 900SE conv.
'99 9-3T
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andydeans3
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1077 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2017 :  19:52:53 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Martin
Certainly hoping it's neither a bent axle or stub axle....Sounds a bit serious.
Surely that sort of damage would come from being in an accident. There's no evidence at all of accident damage.

Worn bushings perhaps? All the front bushings have been replaced, but the back ones are original. I have all the new poly bushings, just haven't got round to fitting them yet.

Andy

1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
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Dirtbiker
V4 Mad

United Kingdom
639 Posts

Posted - 23 Nov 2017 :  21:38:50 Show Profile Visit Dirtbiker's Homepage Reply with Quote
Hi Andy,
I seriously bent one many years ago messing around in the snow and catching a curb sideways. It left the car with major positive camber but no damage other than that so quite easy I reckon to mess up alignment without crashing!
I believe they can be "adjusted" with a long scaffold pole... I still have the bent axle which is the original off the 96, can't quite bring myself to weigh it in!
Cheers
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2563 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2017 :  16:48:39 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
I once had a 96 on the lift for a chap who had issues with one rear tyre wearing very unevenly. I suspected a bent axle, but I found the issue was down to a very rusty/ dirty wheel-hub interface (it took a lot of heat and a lot of swearing to get the wheel off to begin with!). Cleaning both the wheel and the hub did the trick. The other side was fine for some reason.

Something else to consider is a bent wheel, easy to check by spinning the wheel with something pointy close to the rim (or with a DTI if you're posh). A chap in a tyre shop once assured me that 4mm run-out on new rims is not unheard of.

Martin, where do you have you tracking done? I've been using Nauta Bandenservice for the best part of a decade, also for tyres and APK. Hadka did 95/96s as well before they went bust. Always good to know if there are more places about with the right gear in case of an emergency.

www.saabv4.com
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andydeans3
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1077 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2017 :  20:01:32 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Melle

Thanks for your input mate.
The wheels are alloys, but I have noted that the other rear wheel (0.8mm toe in), is slightly buckled.(Potholes of course I'm sure).
I was at an alloy wheel repair shop yesterday in Kirkcaldy, who said they can easily fix the buckle.

This may indeed be the problem with my offending wheel.
Will check the run out, and report back....!

1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
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andydeans3
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1077 Posts

Posted - 25 Nov 2017 :  22:10:51 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Run out on the offending wheel, measured with a "posh" dial gauge, about 0.2 mm!

1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2563 Posts

Posted - 25 Nov 2017 :  22:22:37 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
Not bad!

www.saabv4.com
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72sonett3
V4 Fanatic

Spain
237 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2017 :  20:02:58 Show Profile Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by melle
... I've been using Nauta Bandenservice for the best part of a decade...

Yes, Nauta was the one I went to with my 95, and 96 after I lowered it and cut the roof off. They had all the right equipment.

--
'72 97
'77 96L conv.
'79 96GL (LPG)
'83 900i (LPG)
'95 900SE conv.
'99 9-3T
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Derek
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1818 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2017 :  13:42:21 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Just a comment>

"Is the tyre being scuffed on the inside, consistent, with the wheel being toed in slightly??"

If this was a front wheel the exact opposite would be the case and I would expect the rear to be the same. Have you checked the trailing arm bushes? The axle on that side might be moving back when driving. Does the car drive straight hands off?
I note you also say that the insides of the front tyres are wearing when you have the amount of toe in that you currently have. Inside wear is caused by toe out. Your setting is excessive and may affect the diy rear measurements. Alignment is badly out of whack it seems. Get it done at the front and go from there. Find some older garage with a pair of optical gauges or maybe jack the rear of the car up so the rear wheel laser kit will attach.

Edited by - Derek on 28 Nov 2017 13:53:19
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andydeans3
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1077 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2017 :  18:34:10 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Derek.
Thank you for your input sir.
I can confirm that the car drives pretty straight, if the steering wheel is released on a straight road. No hard pull to right or left. At worst a little drift to the left, sometimes, (not always), but that may be the camber of the road.
I do have a set of ploy bushes for the back, and a new bush for the centre of the axle, just a job I haven't gotten round to yet.
Front bushes were done last year.

I've been checking the front wheels again using two different Heath Robinson systems. One, the axles stands and string, the other a couple of straight, very flat, pieces of wood, strapped to the front wheels, leveled with a spirit level. Then measured front and back.

Both show toe in around 4 mm, though the scuffing on the inside of the tyres suggests toe out.
The Gunson Trakrite tool says toe out.....which ties in with the tyre wear. Perhaps Heath Robinson was a fool! Ha ha...

I have now had a tip, to get the front wheels checked, with an old optical system. We'll see what that brings.




1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
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andydeans3
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1077 Posts

Posted - 02 Dec 2017 :  13:19:04 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Rear tyre, right side, badly punctured now, so will be replacing both rear tyres.
in view of the excessive toe in on the rear right wheel which wore that tye unevenly, as already discussed, I want to replace the side link bushings with poly bushings, which I bought some time ago.
This may, or may not, fix the excessive toe in. Here's hoping

Reading the manual, (always good to do that first..), it mentions on page 732-4 of the Workshop manual,that the angle between the suspension link and the bracket, should be 4 degrees.
Question, how critical is this? Also how do you measure such a small angle?

It also mentions tool number 78 40 762 to push the old bushings out, and the new bushings in.......ahem, would I be correct in saying that a bit of Heath Robinson could work here?
The replacement poly bushes, are in two halves, does this make it any easier to fit them?

1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo
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