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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2343 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2013 :  09:53:19 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
I'm thinking of having a batch of copper head gaskets made and wondered if it would be OK to have the bores cut at 93mm, so they can accommodate both standard and (max) over-size pistons. Or would it be a problem to use an over-bore head gasket with standard pistons? From memory bores on standard gaskets are about 92mm already, so I expect no problems, asking just to be sure.

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V

melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2343 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2013 :  16:52:45 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
No one?

Thinking of having a batch of ten sets made at around 30.00 per set (2 1,0mm copper gaskets per set, water jet cut). Also copper exhaust gaskets. Let me know if you're interested, this is a non-commercial venture.

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V
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hillbilly
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
225 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2013 :  18:30:32 Show Profile Reply with Quote
If the pistons do not protrude above the block it shouldn't be a problem, I have not seen copper head gaskets before, what are the advantages?.
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2343 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2013 :  18:43:14 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
Seems my explanation was unclear: gasket bore is bigger than cylinder bore, so piston travel is not relevant I think?

Copper gaskets can be made at any preferred thickness (they won't compress), they can withstand high pressure and will never blow and they can be reused (if treated properly). Price is also pretty competitive I would say.

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2343 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2013 :  18:47:33 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
Oh, anyone any idea on head bolt torque by the way?

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V
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hillbilly
V4 Fanatic

United Kingdom
225 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2013 :  19:17:39 Show Profile Reply with Quote
sorry Melle I now understand what you mean.

Copper gaskets sound good.
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ade
V4 Fan

United Kingdom
171 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2013 :  21:44:30 Show Profile Reply with Quote
i know very little about this, but won't the gasket continually creep and hence not hold tension in the head bolts?
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2343 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2013 :  09:58:59 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
Why do you think would that happen?

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2343 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2013 :  10:03:38 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
http://www.aera.org/engine-professional/copper-head-gaskets/

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V
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mettersl
V4 Fan

United Kingdom
103 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2013 :  17:52:25 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Sounds good value and tough, but I need open block gaskets!
Good luck with this.
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2343 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2013 :  18:12:09 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
I'm happy to send you the CAD-file when it's done, you only have to do some minor changes to it in order to have open deck gaskets cut. Open source!

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V
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Tristared
V4 Fan

United Kingdom
181 Posts

Posted - 22 Jan 2013 :  16:44:29 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Yes - Put me down for a set....
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James Ranaldi
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
1365 Posts

Posted - 22 Jan 2013 :  19:07:02 Show Profile Reply with Quote
Hi Melle,

I would also be interested in gaskets for the Open Deck Engine.

Your link was very informative and raised a few questions.

I was doing ok until I got to the bit about Combustion Sealing and O Rings.

Is this relevant to the V4 Engine driven as a road car ?

Also, were the original machined surfaces within the tolerances shown ( .002" to .004").

Is this why you chose 1.00mm ?

Cheers
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ade
V4 Fan

United Kingdom
171 Posts

Posted - 22 Jan 2013 :  19:20:54 Show Profile Reply with Quote
i assume you'll go for the integral o-ring type to avoid using sealants etc....this o-ring will counter the natural creep of copper
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2343 Posts

Posted - 22 Jan 2013 :  19:25:51 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by James Ranaldi

I would also be interested in gaskets for the Open Deck Engine.
Sorry James, I'm only doing closed deck gaskets, but you can have the files to have them adjusted (shouldn't be too much work if you still have the gaskets I once sent you as a model) so you can have your own gaskets cut.

quote:
I was doing ok until I got to the bit about Combustion Sealing and O Rings.
Just ignore that bit, not relevant here.

quote:
Also, were the original machined surfaces within the tolerances shown ( .002" to .004").
I don't know... The only way to find that out is to measure them. I would advise you to have both the heads and the block slightly skimmed anyway, just to be sure everything is nice and flat.

quote:
Is this why you chose 1.00mm ?
No, the 1mm is because this resembles the thickness of the original gasket, so you won't run into trouble with the fitting of the inlet manifold, length of the pushrods etcetera.

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V
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melle
V4 Guru

United Kingdom
2343 Posts

Posted - 22 Jan 2013 :  19:43:42 Show Profile Visit melle's Homepage Reply with Quote
@Ade: I wouldn't expect copper to creep, why do you think it does? We're not talking about brass or any other alloy, but pure copper. I'm not a metallurgist, so I'm happy to learn!

1970 96V4 "The Devil's Own V4"
1977 95V4 van conversion project
1988 900i 8V
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