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EdinburghJoe V4 Fan
United Kingdom 162 Posts | Posted - 12 Aug 2018 : 20:55:23
| Hi all,
I've spent more time driving my 96 ('73) than fixing it this summer, but I knew it couldn't last. After a 30 mile spell on the motorway yesterday the clutch started playing up - a grinding noise on operating the clutch, a sound that I could also 'feel' on the pedal. Only when I press the clutch, everything else seems normal.
Is it a good assumption that the release bearing needs replaced?
Now for the hard bit - I'd quite like to do this myself. I've done some work on the '96 so far (new fuel pump, stripped the front callipers, fixed an air leak, removed the radiator) but taking the engine out and working on the clutch is taking it to the next level for me!
I've got the Haynes manual and read through it and it seems OK in theory, but looking at posts on this forum it seems that clutches can get a bit complicated and I don't want to get out of my depth. I quite fancy having a go though - fixing them is part of the deal with these cars.
What's the general view on this? A fair thing for an amateur to do or one for the professionals?
If I do go for this my plan would be to change the bearing and probably the friction plate too. I've been having a poke around online and found the following - do they look right? (I assume my car has the original clutch setup)
Release bearing: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clutch-Release-Bearing-for-SAAB-96-1-5-65-80-Ford-V4-Sachs-Genuine-Hatchback/311782392819?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
Clutch Plate: (I took a punt on this and bought it as there was only one left...) https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253773636804
Do these look like good replacements for what I assume on my car is the original clutch setup?
I'll also need to get an engine hoist, and I think a tool to line the friction plate up. Would this sort of thing do the trick?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gearbox-Clutch-Removal-Alignment-Centering-Tool-Set-Car-Van/250769015509
Are there any other specialist tools I'll need? I have the usual suspects (including a torque wrench)
Thanks for any help,
Joe
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72sonett3 V4 Fanatic
Spain 269 Posts | |
EdinburghJoe V4 Fan
United Kingdom 162 Posts | Posted - 12 Aug 2018 : 21:56:18
| You had me worried there! The eBay link points to an ended item (because I bought it). eBay in its wisdom tries to point you to something it thinks is similar (ie the clutch for a 9000) but if you click on the link in the text where it says ‘the Listing is no longer available ‘ then you should see the ‘real’ listing- it certainly claims to be for a 96! Joe. | |
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72sonett3 V4 Fanatic
Spain 269 Posts | Posted - 12 Aug 2018 : 22:05:05
| Ah, yes, my mistake. That clutch plate is OK, but it is the older style with 4 damper springs vs newer ones with 6 springs (but with the faulty batch). However, it is advised to replace the entire set of bearing + clutch plate + pressure group, and sometimes also the pilot bearing.
If you have the engine out you may find that the bearing arm has worn out holes in it that need welding. See other topics on this forum.
-- '72 97 '77 96L conv. '79 96GL (LPG) '83 900i (LPG) '95 900SE conv. '99 9-3T | Edited by - 72sonett3 on 13 Aug 2018 18:13:05 | |
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Iain G V4 Fan
United Kingdom 159 Posts | Posted - 13 Aug 2018 : 13:37:11
| Definitely agree with all 72Sonett3 said but also definitely worth checking clutch adjustment. Release fork might be going too far in when pedal pressed and corner of fork catching/grinding on the clutch cover plate. Pull back rubber boot on slave cylinder and check free movement on hinge/actuator rod. Should have 5mm (can't remember exact measurement in the book but its difficult to measure exactly anyway). The key point is the release bearing must not be in contact with the pressure plate and there should be clearance. You can increase/decrease the free movement with the square-headed adjustment screw with lock-nut in the bell-housing. Sometimes the slave cylinder is shimmed forwards too where it attaches to the gearbox. You need to find an adjusted position where you get a good/reasonable clutch feel and no grinding. Might keep you motoring for the rest of the summer and beyond.
Iain G | |
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72sonett3 V4 Fanatic
Spain 269 Posts | Posted - 13 Aug 2018 : 14:17:51
| Free play 'A' = 4 mm;
Adjustment screw 1, lock nut 2;
-- '72 97 '77 96L conv. '79 96GL (LPG) '83 900i (LPG) '95 900SE conv. '99 9-3T | |
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Iain G V4 Fan
United Kingdom 159 Posts | Posted - 13 Aug 2018 : 14:47:13
| Nice work Kimosabe!
Iain G | |
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andydeans3 V4 Guru
United Kingdom 1994 Posts | Posted - 13 Aug 2018 : 18:03:44
| Joe If you want a hand to get your engine out, and hopefully get it back in again, let me know. I'd happily come across from Fife, and give you a hand. ps We met briefly at the Bridge of Allan show last year.
Andy
1978 LHD SAAB 96 1978 MGB Roadster 2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo 1991 Nissan Figaro | Edited by - andydeans3 on 13 Aug 2018 18:04:36 | |
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EdinburghJoe V4 Fan
United Kingdom 162 Posts | Posted - 13 Aug 2018 : 21:38:36
| Thanks all,
Iain G - I did check the clutch adjustment as you described (and as per Haynes) and it was all OK, so unfortunately I don't get off the hook! The grinding noise sounds evenly throughout the clutch pedal travel (except for the little bit at the top before it starts to activate).
But the main message I'm getting is that taking the engine out and replacing the bearing is not something to be too put off by, and I'll assess the rest of the clutch while I'm in there and replace the friction plate. The car is relatively low mileage (I don't trust the clock, but I'd guess less than 50K) so I hope I don't find serious wear elsewhere.
Andy - thanks very much for your kind offer - I do remember you from the Bridge of Allan - I'll send you a PM.
Joe | |
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andydeans3 V4 Guru
United Kingdom 1994 Posts | Posted - 14 Aug 2018 : 09:48:07
| Joe. PM doesn't work on this forum. (At least, whenever I've tried to use it, I always get an E mail telling me that it is undeliverable)
My E mail address is andydeans3, then the UK version of Yahoo.
Andy
1978 LHD SAAB 96 1978 MGB Roadster 2008 LHD "Classic" Renault Twingo 1991 Nissan Figaro | Edited by - andydeans3 on 14 Aug 2018 09:50:22 | |
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pchristy V4 Guru
United Kingdom 1790 Posts | Posted - 16 Aug 2018 : 09:36:18
| The very first major job I did on a car was changing the clutch on my V4, back in the early 70s! Prior to that, I'd only done routine maintenance. Its not difficult - I managed it with no previous experience - but there's quite a lot of heavy lifting involved and a lot of things to disconnect.
You need to remove the entire radiator / grill assembly, then unbolt the engine mounts from the floor pan and lift the engine slightly. This will enable you to get at and remove the starter. You have to do this to split the engine and gearbox.
Make sure the engine is well supported when you do this! You will have your hands and arms under the engine, and if it drops.....!
After that, its just a case of undoing a lot of bolts (and remembering where they came from!). When you lift the engine to slide it off the gearbox, put some wooden chocks under the 'box. Otherwise, when you pull the engine off, the 'box will drop onto the floorpan! Chocking up the box also makes it easier when you come to put the engine back!
Watch out for the clearance between the distributor and the cross-strut! Its probably worth removing at least the distributor cap (if not the whole distributor) to avoid accidental damage.
It a few years since I last had my engine out, but I think that's all the "gotchas" to look out for.
Best of luck!
-- Pete "Duct tape is like the Force: It has a light side and a dark side, and it binds the Universe together!" | |
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Betsy67 V4 Fanatic
United Kingdom 409 Posts | Posted - 16 Aug 2018 : 09:57:10
| Is the noise a grinding or a chattering? As mentioned it could be the release arm catching rather than the bearing being seized. No amount of adjustment on the push rod will rectify if it’s the clutch fork catching. Had this problem on Betsy which was solved with shims between the flywheel and pressure plate. Unfortunately it’s still an engine out job. There may still be some pics on my post in projects of what the pressure plate should look like. | |
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EdinburghJoe V4 Fan
United Kingdom 162 Posts | Posted - 16 Aug 2018 : 21:31:36
| Thanks for all the advice Pete - I've been in contact with Andy and taken him up on his offer of help, and in the meantime I've made some progress, getting as far as I can before he comes over.
For Betsy's question, I'd say it's a regular grinding noise. If it is the release arm catching then with a bit of luck Andy will spot that and we can deal with it then.
Joe | |
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stevebod V4 Fanatic
United Kingdom 416 Posts | Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 11:27:13
| If it turns out that you need shims between the clutch and flyweel, then I managed this with the engine in situe. I worked through the inspection hole on the bell housing. Through here you can loosen all 6 clutch bolts then remove them one at a time with a magnetic pick up stick inplace so you don't loose one. Then insert shim wahser (also with a magnet) and then replce bolt. It's a fiddle and if you drop anything you're scuppered, but it worked for me and was quicker than removing the engine. Steve. | |
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EdinburghJoe V4 Fan
United Kingdom 162 Posts | Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 17:12:13
| That's impressive - are you a surgeon in your spare time? PS - Last year I used your guide on adjusting the valve clearances - very helpful. I've also printed your clutch change guide to help with this work - thanks for taking the time to put all that stuff online. | |
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72sonett3 V4 Fanatic
Spain 269 Posts | Posted - 22 Aug 2018 : 20:04:56
| I saw stevebod's guide at http://steves-workshop.co.uk/vehicles/saab96/clutch/clutch.htm and although it is a small and unsharp pic, I think I see one of the faulty clutch plates
where the friction ring is riveted to the gear box side of the hub instead of to the flywheel side. :-(
-- '72 97 '77 96L conv. '79 96GL (LPG) '83 900i (LPG) '95 900SE conv. '99 9-3T | |
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