| Author |  Topic  |
green96v4
V4 Mad
Canada
810 Posts |  Posted - 30 Dec 2024 : 12:41:23  
| A question about engine paint....
So I was "purist" when restoring my engine originally and kept it (mostly) stock apart from cosmetics, however 65bhp just isn't cutting it anymore, especially on this side of the pond with impatient SUV drivers that have no regard for a classic car slowing down their trip to Walmart!
So I have some ported heads and a 2bbl (supplied by Melle) along with a Weber 38/38 that I posted about before coming, Larry Lautenschlager is doing all the porting work (similar to Joop for people doing the same on that side of the pond) he's also got cmas in a variety of "hotness"
We also have a custom exhaust shop here in town that are going to copy the Simons/Swedespeed/Jetex once the engine is all back together
During Covid, I did a cosmetic restoration in 2021 and added the hybrid timing gears you can see in the images, I used high temp paint (and did a bunch of research/digging to find the highest temp paint) but it's already flaking off
So my question to the collective mind is what paint have people used and have you had success with it, or do we have to resign ourselves to redoing this every few years?
I used VHT header paint (rated to an alleged 1200ºC) but it's gone from around the exhaust flanges already and it's flaking in other areas
excuse the mess of sealant and coolant, tear down is always the mucky part! |
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Borstlap
V4 Fanatic
Norway
360 Posts | Posted - 31 Dec 2024 : 00:00:20
| I haven't used it myself but Bill Hirsch manifold paint in a can is advertised to withstand 980°C. It should be applied with VHT primer underneath for extra adhesion. I only write what I read at a local website that is selling it, have no experience at all. Did you use a primer?
Alex |  |
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
4145 Posts | Posted - 31 Dec 2024 : 15:26:15
| I have good experiences with brushed on (white!) Hammerite radiator enamel and with no-name tractor enamel I got off eBay. Both discoloured around the exhaust ports, but didn't flake or anything. I haven't used primer, just made sure the surface was thoroughly degreased.
I've never had much luck with VHT/ stove/ exhaust paint, imo it's a waste of money, especially on exhausts.
www.saabv4.com | |
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green96v4
V4 Mad
Canada
810 Posts | Posted - 31 Dec 2024 : 18:26:43
| I agree Melle, and I'm thinking I should go down the same route as you've suggested, Alex (Borstlap) I did use a VHT primer, may not have had the same rating as the 1200ºC black
I'm thinking a brushed on paint would also be easier for touchups and localised areas | |
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green96v4
V4 Mad
Canada
810 Posts | Posted - 01 Jan 2025 : 14:58:19
| so further to this and a bit of a dilemma, took the camshaft out in readiness for the hot cam coming from Larry, inspecting the cam shaft bearings, they look like this (bottom one is as good a shot as I can get of the middle bearing through one of the cam follower holes)
Would the "hive" mind replace these? (which means engine out.....ugh!)
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
4145 Posts | Posted - 01 Jan 2025 : 15:23:12
| Yes, they need replacing. Sorry!
www.saabv4.com | |
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green96v4
V4 Mad
Canada
810 Posts | Posted - 01 Jan 2025 : 15:43:06
| as always, thanks for the knowledge and expertise Melle
I feared as much, but was putting off the inevitable! | |
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green96v4
V4 Mad
Canada
810 Posts | Posted - 01 Jan 2025 : 19:07:31
| 
well, it's out - I've never done just the engine before, but it was straight-forward enough (apart from that completely inaccessible start motor bolt!!)
beer time! | |
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Woody
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2878 Posts | Posted - 01 Jan 2025 : 23:19:19
| What exhaust are you using and also head gaskets?
I know where there are some SSR reinforced gaskets p/n 10173 your side of the pond. Depending on what C/R the heads will give you.
When I was putting the rally engine back together I used a VHT black, though without primer.
It seems to be holding up but no idea of make as local factor sourced and came marked trade paint. | |
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green96v4
V4 Mad
Canada
810 Posts | Posted - 02 Jan 2025 : 10:35:19
| I'll be having a custom made exhaust from a local fabrication shop that has been recommended by two separate people (one friend has a Lotus Cortina, the other a 71 Chevy Nova) I took the SAAB down to them before the winter and showed then the Swedespeed/Simons/Jetex sets ups and they are confident they can make up something very similar
Larry will likely be providing me the gaskets, he bought most of Jack Lawrence's engine stock from his wife after he passed away, I'll ask him about the SSR gaskets
When I get the heads from Larry, I might head the same way with the VHT and no primer (heads were the worst of the paint flaking, the block has held up quite well apart from that flat part where the engine numbers are stamped)
Going to pull the flywheel and sump off today, trying to also find an oil leak that mysteriously started in the back of the engine when I went over to Amsoil fully synthetic (which is so thin...) | |
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green96v4
V4 Mad
Canada
810 Posts | Posted - 02 Jan 2025 : 20:57:04
| Ok so next question, removing the camshaft bearings - do I have to take out the cover at the back of the engine (can't seem to find any workshop manual instructions on it) if so, what does the allen head grub screw do?
Jack Ashcraft's Total Performance book references "it's a machine shop job" but I've seen various YouTubers using a cam bearing removal tool that looks like a long "slide hammer" (that's probably a horrible description)
Something like this:
If I have to take it to a machine shop, would they be able to work around the piston or do they all have to come out too?
So many questions - sorry! | |
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Woody
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2878 Posts | Posted - 06 Jan 2025 : 00:57:09
| Tap the camshaft towards rear to unseat the end cap. Allen screw is the end of oil gallery.
I think I removed this when overhauling my standard engine in 1987/8. I recollect putting a
Rifle bore brush through it and a mop to dry it out for inspection. Used pipe cleaners for
camshaft centre to cylinder head oil ways.
Removing pistons and crank will make things lighter. You are taking balance shaft out as well
as I would replace those bushings as well. Mains and big end shells might be ok but best to get them inspected..
Never replaced bushings myself as left them to engine shop, in case any needed reaming to fit.
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Edited by - Woody on 06 Jan 2025 00:59:47 | |
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
4145 Posts | Posted - 06 Jan 2025 : 08:42:21
| I've never removed the allen screw. I've never replaced camshaft bearings myself. I've had them replaced by a machine shop nearly 20 years ago when I didn't have the tools; I've since acquired the tools, but I haven't had the need to use them yet (one of the perks of breaking V4's for parts for a decade, I've just kept the good engines for myself!). I've replaced loads of balance shaft bearings though, which is not too difficult.
www.saabv4.com | |
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green96v4
V4 Mad
Canada
810 Posts | Posted - 06 Jan 2025 : 11:31:44
| Thanks for the continued expertise Guys
I had to mount the engine on it's side mounts to be able to get at the end caps, but they came out fairly easily (Camshaft end cap came out with a gentle hammering and large dowel I had, sawn off broom handle would probably work too) Balance shaft was a rubber mallet on the end of the balance shaft to knock the end cap out
Here's what I found, balance shaft bearings are in pretty good shape, but I'm this far in I'll have a go at replacing them - Larry's seen these images and told me the lighter babbitt surface has started to come away, so I guess I'm ordering a bearing removal/install tool!
This is the camshaft end bearing (nearest the distributor) which Larry said usually takes the most punishment because of the distributor, but it looks like it's in the best shape of the three bearings (I'll be replacing all these too though)
I recall when my father rebuilt the engine telling me the mains and big end shells were fine and didn't need replacing (although I have to take his car trader perspective on certain things as he possibly viewed anything 50/50 as "that will cost money" to replace...) Is it an easy task to inspect the main and big end shells without removing everything? (and what are the implications of taking the crank shaft out etc.?)
Finally the wear on the balance shaft
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melle
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
4145 Posts | Posted - 06 Jan 2025 : 13:53:34
| Always difficult to judge journals from photos, wear marks often look worse than they are in real life. Can you feel any marks with a finger nail? It may be worth having the journals polished whilst you're at it.
www.saabv4.com | |
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andydeans3
V4 Guru
United Kingdom
2233 Posts | Posted - 09 Jan 2025 : 10:00:58
| Well, it's out - I've never done just the engine before, but it was straight-forward enough (apart from that completely inaccessible start motor bolt!!)
beer time!
[/quote]
Ah, the "famous" lower starting motor nut!. Trick is to put a jack, with an appropriate piece of wood under the sump. "Just" take the weight of the engine, and then remove the engine mount. Using a 1/4" drive, (not 3/8" - bars are too thick, you have trouble passing the tight spots!) socket with long long extension bars, you can access the lower nut. The long extension bars bring it out to the front of the engine.
I have found this nut to sometimes be 13 mm, sometimes 14, or even 15 mm. 1/4" drive sockets tend to only go up to 13 mm, so some sort of adapter may be required.
Nice job by the way!
1978 LHD SAAB 96
1978 MGB Roadster
1975 RHD Saab 96
1991 Nissan Figaro |
Edited by - andydeans3 on 09 Jan 2025 10:10:08 | |
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| Topic | |
engine upgrade
